Herbert atop some teams draft wish list

rightchea wrote:this is from the Senior bowl on Herbert

james Crepea wrote:Herbert’s impressive first day of practice featured 91 throws, most by any of the six signal callers, whose passing performances were evaluated by Zebra Technologies, the company behind the NFL’s Next Gen Stats.

The former Oregon quarterback had a maximum initial throwing speed of 65.8 miles per hour, second only to Oklahoma’s Jalen Hurts (66.1 mph), and a maximum initial rotation of 740 rpm and average initial rotation of 518 rpm, behind only Utah State’s Jordan Love (747 and 546, respectively), according to Zebra Technologies. The higher the rate of rotation, the tighter a ball spirals and is delivered accurately, especially in adverse weather conditions.

https://www.oregonlive.com/ducks/2020/01/how-justin-herbert-compared-to-other-qbs-in-first-senior-bowl-practice.html

The thing I don't get with Burrow is he just a system QB because didn't sound like he was good enough to be a starter at Ohio St. Yeah he showed how good he was at LSU but what was the main difference.

Clearly the main difference for Burrow was the new offensive system LSU ran in 2019. Because he was very mediocre in 2018 at LSU...just 16 TDs and a completion % below 58. That's my biggest question with Burrow: is he a one-year wonder that can only play well in one system? We just don't know. But, that one season was one of the best college seasons any QB has ever had! I think he may bust in Cincinnati just because that team is a disaster, but in the right system he could be a star.

rightchea wrote:The Bengals literally have only seven picks this draft and they only have 49 million in cap space, which means they are not going to make a lot of movement in free agency. Unless the Bengals trade away their first pick to get some more picks they are going to still have hole that aren't filled. If I was the Bengals I would trade out the first pick and see what team really get Burrow as their first pick. Now that would shake up the draft.

Grier HAS to at least make an offer for the top pick. HAS TO!!!

If another team wants to give up a ton of picks to move ahead of the Fins and take Tua, I wouldn't be that heartbroken about it TBH. But Grier trading up for anyone besides Burrow would be idiotic.

I think the Phins will do everything possible to move into the top 3. That's why they got all these extra picks...to make sure they can get the QB they want. My guess is the first pick will not be for sale. But I think the Skins and especially the Lions will be open for business.

So, I watched the Senior Bowl and was shocked when Herbert was named MVP. I thought all of his passes were short, safe, high-percentage plays and he never showed off his arm strength. His ball placement and accuracy were not impressive. In a game with vanilla defense and no blitzes, I really expected a guy with Herbert's skills to dominate - and he didn't. He was OK..."efficient" was the word Daniel Jeremiah used during the broadcast, and I'd agree. I was just hoping to see so much more from Herbert, and I walked away with the same opinion I had before the game: he has all the skill in the world, but I'm not sure he's a playmaker.

The real MVPs of the game were Josh Kelley (UCLA RB) on offense, and Bradlee Anae (Utah DE) on defense.

JMP wrote:So, I watched the Senior Bowl and was shocked when Herbert was named MVP.  I thought all of his passes were short, safe, high-percentage plays and he never showed off his arm strength.  His ball placement and accuracy were not impressive.  In a game with vanilla defense and no blitzes, I really expected a guy with Herbert's skills to dominate - and he didn't.  He was OK..."efficient" was the word Daniel Jeremiah used during the broadcast, and I'd agree.  I was just hoping to see so much more from Herbert, and I walked away with the same opinion I had before the game: he has all the skill in the world, but I'm not sure he's a playmaker.

So in other words he looked exactly the same as the handful of times I saw him play at Oregon? Got it. I'm still utterly mystified as to what people see in Herbert to make him out to be a franchise QB

DolFan 316 wrote:

JMP wrote:So, I watched the Senior Bowl and was shocked when Herbert was named MVP.  I thought all of his passes were short, safe, high-percentage plays and he never showed off his arm strength.  His ball placement and accuracy were not impressive.  In a game with vanilla defense and no blitzes, I really expected a guy with Herbert's skills to dominate - and he didn't.  He was OK..."efficient" was the word Daniel Jeremiah used during the broadcast, and I'd agree.  I was just hoping to see so much more from Herbert, and I walked away with the same opinion I had before the game: he has all the skill in the world, but I'm not sure he's a playmaker.

So in other words he looked exactly the same as the handful of times I saw him play at Oregon? Got it. I'm still utterly mystified as to what people see in Herbert to make him out to be a franchise QB

Yeah, I mean...for a guy with a big arm he's much more of a dink and dunk QB. It's like he's afraid to just let it rip for some reason. No gunslinger mentality at all.

One other thing that I dislike about Herbert: he's been working out with John Beck this offseason!!! If that's not a red flag, I don't know what is! LOL

Like I said many times...the talent is there. But what does he do with it?

mercury22nathan wrote:all the reason i need to know that Herbert should not be selected...

...among a small group of NFL people who would opt for Oregon’s Justin Herbert over Tagovailoa if given the choice of the two. Former Dolphins executive Mike Tannenbaum is another voice in that camp.

https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/barry-jackson/article239638743.html

if Tannenbaum is saying to take Herbert over Tua - then stay far away, very far away.

but surprisingly he's not the only one.

“I think Justin Herbert is the most talented guy in the whole draft, if I just said who has the highest ceiling,” [NBC announcer and former NFL quarterback Chris] Simms said.

“He’s really a top-notch thrower of the football. Is he as polished or knows how to play the game as well as [LSU quarterback and likely No. 1 overall pick] Joe Burrow? No he does not. Is he going to be behind Joe Burrow in that aspect? Yes because he played in a horrible offense in Oregon taught by an offensive line coach. Sorry, that usually doesn’t translate to knowing the passing game. Burrow got taught by a guy [Joe Brady] that got taught by Sean Payton.

“Herbert might have to be a year on the sideline behind Ryan Fitzpatrick. If you ask me who is the guy in this draft that maybe has a chance to be the next Patrick Mahomes, who in Year 3 of their career, you are going, ‘this guy is unbelievable,’ I think Herbert from what I’ve seen, has got superstar talent. I really like Tua too; don’t get me wrong. The risk is real with that injury. That’s an injury you say, ‘That could be career-altering.’ He could end up having issues with his hip.”

whoa...did he just compare Herbert to Mahomes???  are you f'ing kidding me.

i don't know, but i get a little gun shy when i keep hearing excuses for why a guy isn't meeting his potential versus actually seeing a guy just go out a perform.  it kind of reminds of all the excuses folks were making for Rosen...he's had to many coaching changes and was never taught correctly, but at the end of the day, it just turns out the guys has physical tools but not the makeup to be the man.  a lot of this talk about Herbert not getting the right coaching kind of sounds like masking for other issues.  what it boils down to is guys like Burrow and Tua did it, Herbert did not.

People LOVE QBs with big, strong arms. And Herbert has arguably the strongest arm in this draft. There's no doubt in my mind that arm strength is the main reason so many people love Herbert. Which is odd, considering he rarely shows off that arm strength. I still think he's a good prospect with a high ceiling - but can a coaching staff make him less of a robot and more of a playmaker? The comparisons to Mahomes are laughable. Herbert is the anti-Mahomes when it comes to going off-script and making a huge play out of a doomed play...that's just not who Herbert is. The Chargers would be an interesting landing spot for him...I'd like to see if he could pick up some of that Philip Rivers fire and intensity sitting behind him for a year.

Now, I will say this: the one QB in this draft that reminds me a bit of Mahomes is Jordan Love. Obviously they are on different planets right now, but Love has that ability to throw the ball at any angle and he is very comfortable keeping a play alive and keeping his eyes downfield. He throws a beautiful touch pass and plays with the 'effortlessness' of a guy like Mahomes. Love needs a TON of work to even get close to Mahomes, but he does have that type of ability. Love was disappointing overall in Senior Bowl week, but I saw him flash that ability a few times and he really is very smooth in everything he does. If he lands in the right situation, he could be a star. I feel like he could be a really good fit for the Colts or Raiders.

Wow, hadn't heard that about Rivers. I assumed the Chargers would keep him for one last season to groom a rookie. I think Rivers still has some gas in the tank...but maybe he retires???

Good point on Mahomes...he was definitely raw in terms of NFL standards. KC really did a phenomenal job developing him.

rightchea wrote:From what I saw it wasn't really him dink and donk type of through but more like smart passes to make sure he didn't make any mistakes. He did use his feet to make a play as well but I didn't see anything wrong with what he did. He showed that he can make the right plays without having to try and push the ball and get an INT. Out of all the QB he probably did the best.

Well, yeah, it was all short, easy-to-complete passes designed to make Herbert look good. That's not impressive to me in an all-star game where there's no blitzing and the defense plays simple schemes. I want to see a QB dominate in that situation, not just take the easy way out. Herbert played it safe in that game...and that's not at all what I want to see from a guy that may go top 5. Take some chances...show me that you can go downfield and make big plays/ I can draft a guy in round 5 to throw safe 5-yard passes all day...give me a reason to make you a top pick. I just didn't see it. His ball placement wasn't very good either, even on the completions.

rightchea wrote:The QB that did scare me was Hurts and Gordon. Gordon stared down his WR while Hurts looked uncomfortable.

Hurts was a mess. Gordon was accurate but has no arm. Patterson is just plain bad.

rightchea wrote:Who I liked was the DE from Utah Bradlee Anae. He showed that he can get to the QB and also think he would be a good late first round/early second round pick. Also liked Javon Kinlaw, he did well too.

Anae looked great. Seems more like a pass rush specialist than an every-down player, but he has some skill.

Kinlaw is a beast...could go top 15.

rightchea wrote:I have to agree on Anae not being an every down players but you could probably push him out as an OLB and have him cover RB on the flat or have him blitzing on the inside.

From what I've seen I might be concerned about him in run support, but in this Miami defense, with guys going on and off the field depending on situation, that probably wouldn't be much of a factor. Bottom line: we need pass rushers. Bring 'em in and figure it out!