Grier

I've been questioning Grier for years. He's hag poor drafts, no continuity on what he looks for. After reading about the arrest of Isaiah Wilson I'm even more dumbfounded on what he was thinking? Miami needs to move on from Grier and put someone competent in charge.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/03/24/isaiah-wilson-arrested-facing-multiple-charges-from-high-speed-car-chase/

If Parsons is drafted by this team in the top 10, what will the "it cost nothing" crowd say then?

At least this justifies the Wilson release, but it also makes them look even worse for trading for the guy to begin with.

IMO Grier still needs to go and a new GM plus Flores is what's needed to get this team over the top.

From the link.

The Dolphins were reportedly aware of the arrest at the time of the trade, but did not have the full details of the incident.

I’ll admit the jury is out on Grier. I’m all for an upgrade on draft performance.

However, measuring against baseline success league wide is it reasonable to think an upgrade is likely - and if we think Flores is the right coach is he worth sacrificing to get an upgrade at GM? I don’t believe Ross would fire Grier and deny the new GM choice of head coach.

I don’t know the answer these are my questions ....

white1 wrote:I’ll admit the jury is out on Grier. I’m all for an upgrade on draft performance.

However, measuring against baseline success league wide is it reasonable to think an upgrade is likely - and if we think Flores is the right coach is he worth sacrificing to get an upgrade at GM? I don’t believe Ross would fire Grier and deny the new GM choice of head coach.

I don’t know the answer these are my questions ....

If the new GM was worth hiring, he'd have the sense to keep Flores. Only an idiot would kick Flores to the curb after seeing what he's done in just 2 seasons with not that much to work with thanks to Grier.

All I'd ask of any new GM is to never let Flores make draft picks, since the one time he tried it they wound up with that Iggy guy.

Hey, the Carson anti-Grier train finally gets it's own thread!  About damn time!  

First of all, you can be anti-Grier all you want...but you're really going to use the Isaiah Wilson trade as proof of incompetence??? Really??? A trade for a former first rounder that literally cost the Dolphins nothing? Yes, Grier took a swing and missed...but you know what? He didn't even get a strike because the end result was...nothing happened! The Dolphins didn't spend one penny on Wilson and the 7th rounder they gave up came back to them in another trade. You're continually trying to turn this Wilson deal into some huge story, when the fact is, IT'S NOTHING. It's over, done, gone - and NOTHING negative happened as a result. Time to move on.

Second of all, after the decades of incompetence Dolfans lived through, you're picking 2021 as a time to piss on the GM??? Really?? Under Gase, the Dolphins were an absolute laughingstock and one of the worst-run organizations in the league, with a front office structure that made zero sense and a completely incompetent GM and head coach. And now just two years later, after one of the most extensive rebuilds in NFL history, Grier built a team that went 10-6, and he masterminded several brilliant trades that gave us a ton of draft capital, and the Dolphins are now on the verge of amazing things with what looks like a soon-to-be-great head coach...but NOW is your time to complain??? Huh??? I just really don't understand your hatred of Grier.

DolFan 316 wrote:If Parsons is drafted by this team in the top 10, what will the "it cost nothing" crowd say then?

Well, if the Phins draft Parsons that high, that tells me they did their homework and found nothing wrong. IMO there's no way they'd touch him if they found out the stories were true.

BUT

Drafting a player in the top 10 does not "cost nothing"...it costs a high pick and a lot of money and cap space. It's not even in the same universe as trading a 7th for a guy with no guaranteed $ and a minimal contract, or signing a practice squad player.

It looks to me like we've been continually improving.

I'm all for Flores but Grier has got to go. I actually think Grier lets his little boy make the picks sometimes.

DolFan 316 wrote:From the link.

The Dolphins were reportedly aware of the arrest at the time of the trade, but did not have the full details of the incident.

this is what is most concerning from the article. i agree with JMP that trading for Wilson in principle didn't incur a significant cost and perhaps the chance at turning the talent around was worth it, but what was the rush? why not wait until they had the opportunity to fully vet the details (especially considering Wilson's previous arrest history) before making the trade?

JMP wrote:Well, if the Phins draft Parsons that high, that tells me they did their homework and found nothing wrong.

i hope so too, but that apparently wasn't the case with Wilson.

mercury22nathan wrote:

DolFan 316 wrote:From the link.

The Dolphins were reportedly aware of the arrest at the time of the trade, but did not have the full details of the incident.

this is what is most concerning from the article.  i agree with JMP that trading for Wilson in principle didn't incur a significant cost and perhaps the chance at turning the talent around was worth it, but what was the rush?  why not wait until they had the opportunity to fully vet the details (especially considering Wilson's previous arrest history) before making the trade?

JMP wrote:Well, if the Phins draft Parsons that high, that tells me they did their homework and found nothing wrong.

i hope so too, but that apparently wasn't the case with Wilson.

Again, Parsons and Wilson are two completely different situations.

With Wilson, you're giving up nothing to take a shot at a former first round pick. You don't need to dig deep, because if it doesn't work out the loss is minimal, or in this case, zero. Plus, keep in mind that Flores knew Wilson, at least on a surface level, as did Solomon Kindley. So the guy wasn't a complete stranger that they knew nothing about. Obviously they misjudged his maturity level, but in the end it amounted to nothing.

But with Parsons, you're talking about a top-of-the-draft pick and a big contract - you MUST be thorough and get it right. If Parsons doesn't work out, it's a huge loss because it's a huge investment.

Bottom line here is that the Wilson deal is a non-issue that, for some reason, people can't get passed. Really, if the biggest thing you can find to criticize Grier about is a failed trade that cost the team nothing, I guess he's actually doing a great job.

The Dolphins were reportedly aware of the arrest at the time of the trade, but did not have the full details of the incident.

I am with merc and the others. This makes this "second chance" not a second chance, but shot in the dark on a player they knew
had a history of dumbness and was possibly about to be facing felony charges for excessive dumbness.

I really have to hope Grier was not TOTALLY aware of this. If so, it definitely IS as bad as I am thinking it is. It shows he does not care what transgressions a player has as long as they are talented and he can acquire them for little cost.

I sincerely doubt that is what Ross wants the perception of the Phins to be.

finfanatic wrote:
I really have to hope Grier was not TOTALLY aware of this. If so, it definitely IS as bad as I am thinking it is. It shows he does not care what transgressions a player has as long as they are talented and he can acquire them for little cost.

They chose to give a second chance to a troubled player, and the first thing they did after the trade was reach out to offer the player help - help which Wilson refused. Again, the Dolphins will give out second chances when the cost fits the potential reward, same as every team in the NFL. It's what every business does, NFL or not: cost-benefit analysis. Sometimes you win in those situations, and sometimes you lose. In the end, this was nothing but a tiny blip on the radar that came and went almost instantly, and at this point it is completely meaningless.

JMP wrote:Bottom line here is that the Wilson deal is a non-issue that, for some reason, people can't get passed.  Really, if the biggest thing you can find to criticize Grier about is a failed trade that cost the team nothing, I guess he's actually doing a great job.  

The reason some of us can't get past it is because right after releasing Wilson, Grier saw fit to sign a player who'd threatened to shoot somebody, and who'd been on three different teams in college. To most people this would be demonstrating a repeated pattern of behavior.

And what's to stop Grier from drafting Parsons anyway? In his mind he could always rationalize it by telling himself even top 5 rookie contracts are a lot cheaper than they used to be so it doesn't "really" cost *that* much, right? This is how people think when they keep doing the same thing and getting away with it. Wilson and Locksley might just be gateway drugs to the hard stuff.

DolFan 316 wrote:

JMP wrote:Bottom line here is that the Wilson deal is a non-issue that, for some reason, people can't get passed.  Really, if the biggest thing you can find to criticize Grier about is a failed trade that cost the team nothing, I guess he's actually doing a great job.  

The reason some of us can't get past it is because right after releasing Wilson, Grier saw fit to sign a player who'd threatened to shoot somebody, and who'd been on three different teams in college. To most people this would be demonstrating a repeated pattern of behavior.

And what's to stop Grier from drafting Parsons anyway? In his mind he could always rationalize it by telling himself even top 5 rookie contracts are a lot cheaper than they used to be so it doesn't "really" cost *that* much, right? This is how people think when they keep doing the same thing and getting away with it. Wilson and Locksley might just be gateway drugs to the hard stuff.

Locksley is a practicesquad player that probably won't make it through training camp. Who cares?

One thing will stop Grier from drafting Parsons: if the research his staff does reveals that the assault and harassment stories are true.

just because its Friday and i love making people's head's explode...

so last year, we all knew Miami was zeroing in on a QB with the 5th pick. this was supposedly what the "tank" was all about. picking that QB who would be the future of the team. Grier apparently attended games at LSU, Alabama, Oklahoma, etc., and then made the rounds to see every worthy first round graded (and some 2nd and 3rd too) QB's pro day. well, all except one...

You know where Dolphins general manager Chris Grier will be Friday?

Neither do I.

We’ve run into each other on flights in the past.

Last year, I knew he was making the rounds to see all the quarterbacks -- although he didn’t get to Justin Herbert’s workout in Oregon.

https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/armando-salguero/article250214605.html

make of it what you will.

mercury22nathan wrote:just because its Friday and i love making people's head's explode...

so last year, we all knew Miami was zeroing in on a QB with the 5th pick.  this was supposedly what the "tank" was all about.  picking that QB who would be the future of the team.  Grier apparently attended games at LSU, Alabama, Oklahoma, etc., and then made the rounds to see every worthy first round graded (and some 2nd and 3rd too) QB's pro day.  well, all except one...

You know where Dolphins general manager Chris Grier will be Friday?

Neither do I.

We’ve run into each other on flights in the past.

Last year, I knew he was making the rounds to see all the quarterbacks -- although he didn’t get to Justin Herbert’s workout in Oregon.

https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/armando-salguero/article250214605.html

make of it what you will.

I had heard that the Dolphins did extensive work on Herbert the previous season. I don't know how true that is, but it could explain why Grier didn't feel the need to attend his Pro Day. Who knows.

Anyway, this line form Armando was pretty stupid: "The Wolverines didn’t have as good a team as BYU last year which suggests they didn’t have as many good players." Actually, Armando, it doesn't suggest that at all. A player's status in the draft isn't determined by how "good" his team was.