Game thoughts: Week 11, Texans at Dolphins

Great post, Kev! 2-1 on that road trip would be great - especially if the wins are against the Chargers and Bills. We need those conference wins, and beating the Bills would of course give us a huge edge in taking the division crown. 3-0 would be simply incredible!!

Excellent point about McDaniel knowing the ins and outs of that San Fran D - that's very true. I do think we can score points. My concern is with Miami's D. The San Fran offense has weapons everywhere, and I'm not sure we are going to be able to cover everyone. I think the key will be pass rush...if we can get to Jimmy G and force him to make mistakes, we have a shot.

mercury22nathan wrote:

Former first-round pick Austin Jackson was back on the field for the first time since Week 1 and looked much like the player we saw in his first two seasons, unfortunately. Jackson allowed five pressures on 48 pass-blocking snaps before leaving with an ankle injury once again.

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-week-12-game-recap-miami-dolphins-30-houston-texans-15

I'm not sure I believe that "5 pressures" stat. I didn't key on Jackson on every play but I definitely did not see him playing that poorly. Like I said, he looked decent to me. Now, Robert Hunt...if you told me he allowed 5 pressures I'd buy that. I thought he played his worst game of the season.

On the game : Offense was inconsistent in the passing attack, and next to nothing on the rushing attempts...You can't really call what we saw on the ground from the Phins yesterday a rushing ATTACK, can you....

Let's hope it was the bye week rust, but these are the same things that popped up earlier in the season for the Phins Offense it seems. The red zone problems were extremely worrying knowing the 3 game stretch that is coming up. Too many more FGs and the Phins could be looking UP at the Bills and the Jets!!!

The Phins Oline with Armstead is okay; without him, they sucketh mightily!!! I will call it the "Wreck" Flowers effect. When they had OG Flowers in there, they had the semblance of a rushing attack, especially on the left side. When they shipped "Wreck" Flowers off, the whole Oline took two steps back, fell down, scooted backward a bit more, and then managed to get up on one knee with ToxicTeamKiller Flores and his dual headed NON-Offensive Co-ordinators!! Apparently the mere presence of certain Olinemen is enough to raise the level of play of the entire Oline.

On why Jackson was playing RT - According to sideline reporter Adiddi I think...It was because of his overall athleticism? I thought Jackson did okay, but there was next to no movement on rushing plays and just a comprehensive failure on pass blocking after Armstead went out it seemed.

Very troubling. As I have said all along...Injuries are the one thing that will sideline the Phins season for sure. To Tua especially, but we probably should add Armstead as well. Without him, the Oline is just not up to the challenge IMO.

Priority next year - A solid Backup Swing Tackle - I do not know if you can get a developmental tackle in free agency without paying him a huge amount. What you could do is sign a RT and make Jackson,Shell, or Little the swing tackle? That is not ideal to say the least. I think this leaves the draft, but as DF316 points out, Griers drafting of Olinemen is not ideal to say the least EITHER!! But as JMP correctly points out, we have not seen Grier draft an Olineman for McDaniel's offensive scheme with McDaniels and his coaching staff's help.

But yet again... Dipshyte Ross' blazing nuclear-grade stupidity has deprived the Phins of a chance to get an Olineman in the 1st. They would have to get lucky in the 2nd round or maybe get even luckier in the later rounds.

Color me skeptical until I see it work out.

On the upcoming 3 game stretch - Somehow... Someway... the offense needs to overcome this horrible inconsistency. The offense when it is functioning properly and Tua is on target and on time does not leave much for an opposing defense to focus on. This assumes the Phins Oline can give Tua time and Tua gets back to his normal accuracy. Even WITHOUT the help of the running game, the offense is potent. Houston played not to get beaten deep and they didn't, but it let Miami build a 30 point lead.

I really liked seeing the pressure the defense was able to bring versus the bad Houston's Oline. Let's hope that is the new norm for the Phins D.

I am hoping for 2-1 but if Armstead is out...

Let's hope McDaniel can come up with a way to keep Tua upright and in the game even if the Phins backups are playing on the Oline.

I am not seeing offensive inconsistency at all since Tua returned from injury. Sure, the Steelers game was a bit rough, but since then we've scored 30+ points in 4 straight games. The encouraging thing to me is that on an "off day", Tua still threw for 299 yards!

As far as the OL, we finished last season on a 7-1 run with one of the worst OLs in NFL history. I think we'll be just fine without Armstead for a few games if it comes to that - as long as we have Tua, Hill, Waddle and McDaniel. But as always - we'll see...

DolFan 316 wrote:So it's come to this...you guys actually trusting GRIER to draft good O-linemen. I never thought I'd see the day (sighs).

The GF bought wine and I'm drinking it, dammit. Not even thinking about how 8-3 could turn into 8-6 easily. Nope. Everything's going to be fine! FINE, I tell you! (Sticks fingers in ears.)

LALALALALALALALALALALALA!!!!!!

Grier is absolute dog shit when it comes to picking linemen. Eichenberg and Jackson were both picked to solve the left side of the line. Neither is worth their draft status. Terron was brought in to stabilize the line on the left side. His drawback is missing 1/3 of every season. Best lineman we have when healthy. How many picks will it take for Grier to finally draft one great tackle or center?

Grier hasn't drafted any OL for McDaniel. Unlike Flores, McDaniel knows linemen, and runs a real, legitimate offensive scheme. He knows exactly what he's looking for in OL for his offense. Just look at Armstead and Williams - perfect fits for the offense. If the Phins do draft OL, I think we'll see much better results because the head coach actually has a clue.

So Flores picked the line and Grier gets another pass? Grier is why we will end up middle of the pack yet again.

Miami better come up with a blocking package. Time to start listing a reserve lineman as a full back. Put that dude in the backfield to help with the blocking.

CarsonChris wrote:So Flores picked the line and Grier gets another pass? Grier is why we will end up middle of the pack yet again.

Miami better come up with a blocking package. Time to start listing a reserve lineman as a full back. Put that dude in the backfield to help with the blocking.

Grier picked the O-linemen for Gase too. Just sayin'. And that's when he officially became the GM, as director of college scouting he had a hand in picking gems like Ja'Wuan James, Billy Turner and Dallas Thomas before then as well.

CarsonChris wrote:So Flores picked the line and Grier gets another pass? Grier is why we will end up middle of the pack yet again.

 

Well, the Dolphins are 16-4 in their last 20 games. Only KC has a better record (17 wins) in that span. If you want to say that Grier has nothing to do with that, that's fine - but it's not accurate.

Grier works with the head coach to pick players - he doesn't just select guys that he (Grier) wants. Flores absolutely had input on all the draft selections, just like McDaniel does. When it comes to OL, McDaniel has a clear vision of what he wants, and Grier will sign and draft players that fit that vision.

In the Flores era, we changed offensive systems and coaches every year, the offense never had a clear identity, and Flores didn't even care about the offense (as evidenced by the fact that he stopped communicating with the coaches at midseason last year). Drafting OL in that scenario was essentially throwing darts with a blindfold on - at best. Those days are, thankfully, over.

JMP wrote:In the Flores era, we changed offensive systems and coaches every year, the offense never had a clear identity, and Flores didn't even care about the offense (as evidenced by the fact that he stopped communicating with the coaches at midseason last year).  Drafting OL in that scenario was essentially throwing darts with a blindfold on - at best.  Those days are, thankfully, over.

So how do you explain the 20 or so years of O-line draft whiffs before then?

Yes, this particular problem predates Grier by a good bit. But he's certainly done nothing to solve it.

Maybe Grier and McDaniel should take whatever info the O-line scouts give them and do the complete opposite. Seriously.

DolFan 316 wrote:

Grier picked the O-linemen for Gase too. Just sayin'. And that's when he officially became the GM, as director of college scouting he had a hand in picking gems like Ja'Wuan James, Billy Turner and Dallas Thomas before then as well.

Grier wasn't a true GM at that time. That team was run (into the ground) by Mike Tannenbaum and Adam Gase - two of the dumbest football minds in history as far as I'm concerned. Those two ass-hats were the decision-makers, not Grier. Grier didn't get real power till Tannenbaum was gone.

As director of scouting, I honestly have no idea how much say Grier had in who was picked. From what I understand, a lot of directors delegate - they don't do the actual scouting or make picks. Who knows?

But what I do know is that this is the best Dolphins team in decades, and it has been built almost entirely with players that Grier and his staff and coaches have brought in from 2019 to the present.

DolFan 316 wrote:

So how do you explain the 20 or so years of O-line draft whiffs before then?

Really??? I kinda thought everyone knew that answer: a history of garbage GMs and garbage coaches.

JMP wrote:Really???  I kinda thought everyone knew that answer: a history of garbage GMs and garbage coaches.

If so many GMs and coaches come and go and this one problem keeps remaining, then obviously there's another reason for it. And at this point it HAS to be the scouts. They're the only ones left to blame (and Grier for listening to them).

Also, it's rather odd that these same garbage GMs and coaches have been able to draft DBs fairly well even in the late rounds

IMO the criteria for evaluating O-line talent has to be completely changed, or else the problem will persist.

Having a perpetual blind spot and being a good team aren't mutually excusive either. Just look at how the Belichick-Brady era Pats couldn't draft a WR to save their lives.

DolFan 316 wrote:

If so many GMs and coaches come and go and this one problem keeps remaining, then obviously there's another reason for it. And at this point it HAS to be the scouts. They're the only ones left to blame (and Grier for listening to them).

Well, if you want to extol the virtues of GMs like Mike Tannenbaum, Dennis Hickey and Jeff Ireland, and head coaches like Adam Gase, Joe Philbin and Cam Cameron, go right ahead. I won't join in, but have at it!

I'll just say that I don't know anything about the scouting department because those guys are typically unknown, but I know damn sure that none of the GMs/coaches I mentioned above were competent in any way, shape or form.

JMP wrote:Well, if you want to extol the virtues of GMs like Mike Tannenbaum, Dennis Hickey and Jeff Ireland, and head coaches like Adam Gase, Joe Philbin and Cam Cameron, go right ahead.  I won't join in, but have at it!

Extolling the virtues??? I'm just pointing out that somehow, this collection of idiots were able to find DBs like Reshad Jones in the 5th round as well as credible starters/contributors like Bobby McCain (5th), Chris Clemons (5th), Sean Smith (2nd) and Vontae Davis(1st) who might not have been anything special but were all certainly much better than any O-lineman drafted during that same time span.

Let's not anoint Grier as the league's best GM just yet when on his watch this team has just a single playoff appearance that was mostly due to Gase's absurdly incredible luck. I'm not sure there's another head coach in NFL history who won more games his team was badly outplayed in.

DolFan 316 wrote:

Let's not anoint Grier as the league's best GM just yet

Well, he's certainly headed in that direction this season. Although John Schneider in Seattle may get in the way.

Let's face it... Picking LTs is extremely hard in this league. And picking the other positions is not much easier.

The Phins just played a team that has invested a lot of high picks on the Oline, and the Texans Oline stinks. And that is with Tunsill at LT.

One factor, which is the same for the Texans and the Phins is the lack of stability in the Coaching Staff. As JMP points out, the GM TRIES to pick players that will fit the coaching staffs schemes. If the Offensive scheme is changing constantly like it was under Flores, or it was for the Texans since Bill O'Riley was kicked to the curb, you are apt to see some misfits like we saw with Solomon Kindley. He looked fairly competent when Chan Gailey was calling plays but then looked bad and then worse, got replaced, and finally got axed when McDaniel came along.

So I am not giving Grier a pass but after seeing what McDaniel and staff can do with the players Grier has assembled, you cannot argue with the results... too much. If the Phins go 0-3 in the next three games I reserve the fans right to dramatically change my opinion!!!  

What I have to base the HOPE that Grier along with McDaniel and his staff, can draft better OLinemen is the two big free agent Olinemen they signed this year; Williams and Armstead. Both have worked out fairly well. I think this was a collaboration between Grier and the coaching staff. If they can somehow solidify two more spots on the Oline for next year, who knows?

We did not get to see any draft picks used on OLinemen this year, but unless they trade all he picks away for next year... which might be possible if the Phins go deep in the playoffs this year.... we just might get to re-assess Grier's abilities in light of how he drafts for McDaniel and his coaching staff.

Excellent post, FF - you are the voice of reason here!

One thing I want to highlight: "Picking LTs is extremely hard in this league." Over the past 5 or so years, I'd adjust that to read "Picking OL is extremely hard in this league." With all the gimmicky college offenses that are around, most OL are not ready for the NFL - at all. And you can see that play out every week in the NFL: most teams have mediocre - or far worse - OLs these days. It's difficult to even name the top linemen right now, because there are so few really good OL.

I think more than ever, teams have to draft OL for traits rather than ability. I know that sounds odd, but I really believe that scheme fit is the most important aspect nowadays. Look at Connor Williams...not the best center in the world, but he knows exactly what is expected of him and he can execute the plays that are called. Get 5 guys like that, and you have a top line - even if none of them are All Pros.

I'd love to hear Merc's thoughts on this...

Eichenberg and Jackson have played terribly under 2 different offensive systems. It's them not the coaching.

Armstead is a stop gap. We don't have anyone that can play at or near his level at LT. We need that player. Eichenberg and Jackson were supposed to be that player. Instead we have to shuffle them around to try and hide them. We are having to bring in FA to bolster the line. It's clear though we need a permanent fix at LT. Some people have mentioned bringing back Tunsil next year. That might be the best option considering our picks next year.

CarsonChris wrote:Eichenberg and Jackson have played terribly under 2 different offensive systems.  It's them not the coaching.

I don't think Eich and Jackson have been terrible this season. Eich certainly isn't great, but I'd label him more up and down than terrible. He's had some very good moments this season, and some very bad. Jackson of course hasn't played much this season, but he looks much better at RT than he ever did at LT and LG. I think he could have a future there in this offense, if he ever stays healthy.

I'd certainly bring in legit competition for both, or give Jones and Shell a real shot to keep those jobs, but I think both Eich and Jackson are worth keeping and developing - even if only as backups.

JMP wrote:

CarsonChris wrote:Eichenberg and Jackson have played terribly under 2 different offensive systems.  It's them not the coaching.

I don't think Eich and Jackson have been terrible this season.  Eich certainly isn't great, but I'd label him more up and down than terrible.  He's had some very good moments this season, and some very bad.  Jackson of course hasn't played much this season, but he looks much better at RT than he ever did at LT and LG.  I think he could have a future there in this offense, if he ever stays healthy.

I'd certainly bring in legit competition for both, or give Jones and Shell a real shot to keep those jobs, but I think both Eich and Jackson are worth keeping and developing - even if only as backups.

Meh. Everywhere look I see the both of them be near-universally panned. Isn't it odd how much better the O-line played all of a sudden after Eichenberg was hurt? Isn't it weird how a 30-year old journeyman was able to replace Jackson at RT and be a significant upgrade? When Robert Jones and Brandon Shell are better than a first rounder and a second rounder who was traded up for, that's a problem.

If it was up to me I *suppose* I would keep both of them around, but only because I couldn't trade either one and Jackson's in the final year of his rookie deal next season anyway. But not as starters. No, not as starters.

Again, this is similar to the Pats' longstanding problem of being completely unable to draft a decent WR. They were able to cover it up at first by bringing in Randy Moss, Wes Welker, and drafting a great TE, but eventually it caught up with them to the point where even Brady went one and done in the playoffs with the bunch of bumblers, busts and bums there.

This issue can (and must) be spackled over with FAs and undrafted rookies, at least for the time being. It would help if Grier would drop his love affair with injury-prone players, though.

JMP - Traits, skills, ability, etc... it all comes down to PROJECTING.... you have to project what you see into a vision of what the player will become with coaching, strength training, practice, conditioning, whatever. Some people can project better than others.

Also, very important... is what you are seeing in college from a player the top end of his talent/skills or is there room to improve? I think that is why some of the higher rated players stink in the NFL... they have been coached up in college to get the most out of their ability and when they get drafted in the NFL, you hope their play improves. With some players, what you see in college is as good as they will ever be and they fail in the NFL where the level off play is so much better.

After all these years, if there was a way to do it exactly right, somebody would have discovered it. Drafting is more an art than a science.

CC - Eichenberg is in his second year in a brand new system that asks him to do things entirely differently than ToxicTeamKiller Flores Dual Non-OCs did. I am not ready to jettison Eichenberg just yet. From what I can see he really needs to work on his footwork, especially that first step, where if you ain't the fastest or the strongest, makes enormous difference for an Olineman.

Jackson... He looked like a rookie in Chan Gailey's offense but there was something there where we HOPED he would develop. It has been all downhill since then, but as JMP says, I think he may have found a home at RT. But I would not balk at an upgrade either.

It will be interesting to see what happens the rest of this season and how the Phins approach the Oline this offseason and maybe in the draft. The loss of that 1st rounder REALLY makes things difficult. I just cannot tell you how loathsome I find old Shiitehead Ross!!

Some people have mentioned bringing back Tunsil next year. That might be the best option considering our picks next year.

Interesting. Recall Tunsil started at LG when we had Albert at LT. That was a good plan, and would be another good plan with Armstead and his injury history. Also buys us time to develop some rookie OL as depth to take over in the future.

Another problem is something I've talked about before, but not for a while--generational loss of testosterone. It's a very real thing that's been going on for at least 80 years now where males are born with less of it in them than their dads, and their sons have less of it still, and then THEIR sons have even less. Men are literally less manly now than ever before. And we're seeing this have a significant effect on O-linemen in particular. It's perhaps the most masculine position in football in terms of the strength and attitude required, and is no place for wimps, weenies and wusses yet that's exactly the kind of players who are increasingly filling those spots.

All that having been said, this team continues to display a remarkable ability to keep drafting guys there who aren't even average by today's severely watered-down standards.

DolFan 316 wrote:[

Everywhere  look I see the both of them be near-universally panned.

I think that has a lot to do with the nature of OL. Unless you actually key on a specific OL player, it's difficult to really judge how they are playing - aside from "special" plays like a pancake block or a complete whiff. The bad plays stand out more, and it is what people remember because they see it over and over on the replay. Like this past Sunday, everyone saw the complete miss that Jackson had, where Tua almost got sacked. But no one (except me) talks about that awesome kick-block he had on Wilson's TD. So people say he had a bad game, when in reality he was actually pretty good overall despite a couple of poor plays. An O-lineman could play 50-70 snaps and allow 2 pressures. The pressures get highlighted because they are easy to see, but the player rarely gets credit for the other 50 or so plays where he did his job.

It's also about reputation. Armstead whiffed on a block Sunday in the redzone that almost got Tua killed, and I haven't heard anyone mention it. But people point out Jackson's whiff over and over.

The jury is out on Jackson since he hasn't really played this season. And I'm not saying Eich has been good, but I am saying that he gets the job done at an adequate or above level on most of his snaps. The 4 or 5 bad plays he might have in a game get magnified, while the 50 or so quality snaps he has get ignored.

I do agree we need upgrades - I'm just saying that IMO Eich hasn't been nearly as bad this season as the narrative that's out there would lead people to believe. I also think that Jackson looked good enough at RT in the preseason to warrant a long look in the regular season - if he ever gets healthy.