Byron Jones Update- Phins will cut him on March 15

Very little drama, IMO.  Kind of what I thought.  He simply was not able to recover from the torn achilles and/or ankle injury:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/02/25/byron-jones-seems-to-indicate-hes-done-playing-football/

Jones spent all of 2022 on the physically unable to perform list, due to ankle and Achilles issues.

His tweet strongly implies that he won’t be playing any time soon, if (as he says) he can’t run or jump.

Jones remains under contract with the Dolphins. With a $13.5 million salary for 2023, none of which is guaranteed, it appears that he’ll either be released or retiring, sooner than later.

I still say it's all a ploy, a ruse, a devious, diabolical attempt to get out of Miami so he can run right into Flores's waiting arms. I smell a rotten rat in the state of Denmark, I tell you!!!

Peyton Manning's career was supposed to be shot after his arm injury...until he signed with the Broncos. Just sayin'.

Also, I love how he throws the Fins under the bus by HEAVILY implying that they're somehow the only team whose medical staff forces unnecessary shots on players (where was all this during the vaccine mandates, hmmm?). nd then I looked at some of the comments and they were...interesting.

It states on ESPN that he doesn’t plan on retiring. Not sure how a routine Achilles surgery made it so he can’t run or jump. Curious if the surgery was botched or this is his easy way out after getting paid. Either way Miami needs to move on.

He didn’t want to play in 2022 either which is why he got a cleanup on his Achilles in March rather than after the season he found out he was going to be traded…

There are those in the “know” that witnessed several late training sessions in Miami last season & watched Byron Jones able to perform at or very close to his pre- Achilles injury and were stunned when he basically decided to quit on the Fins for the year. As a Bills fan it was good news but from an NFL fan this is happening more frequently with certain players & these future contracts need to reflect these possible scenarios.

Even *I* didn't expect to be proven right THIS quickly

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/02/25/report-byron-jones-isnt-retiring-despite-his-tweets/

Yup. Blatant cash grab followed by a reunion with his pal Flores and suddenly being good to go. Good riddance, I say!

Everytime I wanna jump on a football player for saying dumb shit I digress. I realize that these guys are just kids really. They are being used by Adults who want what they want and tell players what they want to hear or use they're upbringing against them.

The point I'm trying to make is that Byron Jones was better off saying nothing. Saying what he said opens himself up for all kinds of situations that I don't think he's prepared to answer. And now that Miami is about to cut him. They will let him dig his own grave when asked about what happen last season.

I had heard at one point during the season that Byron's calf was so atrophied that he couldn't do anything. That story seems to have disappeared so who knows if it is true or not. Then we heard that quote from Sam Madison at the end of the year that implied that Byron was able to play but chose not to, and who knows if that is true or not.

The bottom line is that it's hard to believe anything anyone says anymore...we live in a world where people just spread rumors and lies just as easily as they breathe. So at this point I have no damn idea what kind of condition Byron is in, but I do fully expect the Dolphins to designate him a post-June 1 cut.

I suspect DF316 is right. This is a ploy to make sure no team would even offer the Phins a low round pick for Jones.

He gets cut and can go where he wants.

I was against the Phins paying him that much money at the time and IMO, Jones was not worth it.

Umix10 wrote:I realize that these guys are just kids really.

except that Byron Jones is a 30 year old man. i'm not sure the just-a-kid excuse applies.

here are his exact words:

“Much has changed in 8 years. Today I can’t run or jump because of my injuries sustained playing this game. DO NOT take the pills they give you. DO NOT take the injections they give you. If you absolutely must, consult an outside doctor to learn the long-term implications.

“It was an honor and privilege to play in the NFL but it came at a regrettable cost I did not foresee. In my opinion, no amount of professional success or financial gain is worth avoidable chronic pain and disabilities. Godspeed to the draft class of 2023.”

perhaps a bit a hindsight now that he has grown older, but i suspect if he had to do it again, he wouldn't go back and work a low-paying wage job instead of the millions he's been paid. it's sad, but tell me one player that doesn't know football is a violent game and they understand they are taking a risk.

he did use past tense, so that seems to imply he retiring, but of course if he comes out and says it, then he won't see the rest of his prorated signing bonus. but if he doesn't retire, then doesn't that make his words about the financial gain not being worth it just a bit hypocritical?

[quote="mercury22nathan"]

Umix10 wrote:I realize that these guys are just kids really.

except that Byron Jones is a 30 year old man.  i'm not sure the just-a-kid excuse applies.

here are his exact words:

"......he did use past tense, so that seems to imply he retiring, but of course if he comes out and says it, then he won't see the rest of his prorated signing bonus.  but if he doesn't retire, then doesn't that make his words about the financial gain not being worth it just a bit hypocritical?

Which is my point. These players are just older kids in my opinion. Yes, 30 years old, [/u]"SUGGESTS" [/u], that he's more wiser but in the grand scheme of things they aren't adults. They have choices when they get into the league which they heavily rely on counsel to decide.
Agents, coaches, lawyers, parents, family, etc. etc. etc. Really relying on others to guide them and giving information skewed towards their own objectives. I dont feel sorry for Byron Jones the player. I feel sorry for Byron Jones the person. Somewhere along the way he needed those injections or those pills because he felt as a person he needed the money to provide for somebody or something or somebody in his camp. He said yes because no one turns down money to be the highest paid CB in the league. If money is his main objective, which it was, then you can not complain about it, because you got the money.

BTW - trading or cutting Jones post June 1 will save $13.6 million in cap space this season - but unfortunately will also leave the team with $10 million in dead cap next season.

mercury22nathan wrote:he did use past tense, so that seems to imply he retiring, but of course if he comes out and says it, then he won't see the rest of his prorated signing bonus.  but if he doesn't retire, then doesn't that make his words about the financial gain not being worth it just a bit hypocritical?

As Umix said, Jones has painted himself into a corner now. If he doesn't retire, then clearly he's not as badly injured for life as he implied. And what if he signs with another team, say, just for example, the Vikings? How will he and the media spin that? Then again, people these days literally don't seem to care or even be aware about their increasingly blatant hypocrisy, I've never seen anything like it. We've reached the point where if a stranger punches you, it's because you clearly deserved it but if you punch them back it's "extreme violence!" Essentially, Jones is like most millennials in that he wants the money without actually doing anything to get it. I wouldn't be surprised one bit if Flores was in on this all along, with he and Jones regularly communicating behind the scenes all season. Of course if it comes out that this happened, the NFL won't do a thing about the obvious tampering.

JMP wrote:BTW - trading or cutting Jones post June 1 will save $13.6 million in cap space this season - but unfortunately will also leave the team with $10 million in dead cap next season.

$10 mil in dead money is nothing. Every team always has at least that much during a season. I'm actually glad it's not worse TBH. But over the past few days I've seen a lot of people coming to the realization that something has to be done about the wild overspending teams are doing, that always results in them having to part ways with the same players they massively overpaid 2-3 seasons later. It really has gotten out of control. If another plandemic (not a typo) breaks out, most teams would either need to dump half their roster ASAP or the NFL would need to declare an uncapped year.

EDIT: You want to talk about cap hits? Check out how massive the cap hit would be for the Bills if they traded Diggs, who is in the process of griping his way off the team just like he griped his way off the Vikings.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/02/21/a-stefon-diggs-trade-would-come-with-a-major-cap-charge-for-the-bills/

Perhaps the Fins can bring back Bobby...

https://www.profootballrumors.com/2023/02/commanders-release-db-bobby-mccain

He'd be considerably cheaper than Jones methinks.

JMP wrote:BTW - trading or cutting Jones post June 1 will save $13.6 million in cap space this season - but unfortunately will also leave the team with $10 million in dead cap next season.

$10M??? i've seen a much lower post June 1 dead cap hit.

Jones has an $18.3 million cap number next season; Miami would have $14.8 million in dead money and a $3.8 million cap savings on its 2023 cap if he’s cut before June 1 without a post-June 1 designation.

If Miami cuts him after June 1 — or releases him at the start of the new league year in mid March and designates him a post-June 1 cut — the Dolphins would have $4.7 million in dead money but $13.6 million in savings on its 2023 cap.

https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/barry-jackson/article272614898.html

however, the Dolphins apparently can not release him as long as he is supposedly physically unable to play - hence the above post about not being able to run and jump - without first negotiating an injury settlement. so the Dolphins will be in a bit of a squeeze to negotiate an injury settlement and release him with a post-June 1 designation before his 2023 contract year becomes guaranteed.

DolFan 316 wrote:

$10 mil in dead money is nothing. Every team always has at least that much during a season. I'm actually glad it's not worse TBH. But over the past few days I've seen a lot of people coming to the realization that something has to be done about the wild overspending teams are doing, that always results in them having to part ways with the same players they massively overpaid 2-3 seasons later. It really has gotten out of control. If another plandemic (not a typo) breaks out, most teams would either need to dump half their roster ASAP or the NFL would need to declare an uncapped year.

EDIT: You want to talk about cap hits? Check out how massive the cap hit would be for the Bills if they traded Diggs, who is in the process of griping his way off the team just like he griped his way off the Vikings.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/02/21/a-stefon-diggs-trade-would-come-with-a-major-cap-charge-for-the-bills/

Yeah, the $10 million dead cap is nothing...but it still sucks in a year when we need to extend Wilkins and Sieler, and likely pay Tua $23 million on his 5th year option. But in the grand scheme of things, the $10 M shouldn't impact anything.

And yes, it is crazy how many big-money free agent signing are getting cut after a year or two. It's just irresponsible spending...paying top dollar for players that are often no better than "good". But that's part of the supply and demand aspect, and teams get desperate. It also points to the fact that, really, there aren't many great players in the league at this point - especially at key positions like OL, LB, DE and CB.

I just looked at that Diggs contract on Spotrac...it's rough. The Bills really don't have a legit out till 2025, and even that comes with a big dead cap amount. Of course, the Dolphins are in a similar situation with Hill, but at least he seems like much more of a team player and leader than Diggs ever was.

mercury22nathan wrote:
$10M???  i've seen a much lower post June 1 dead cap hit.

The dead cap this year would be $4.75M. But there is also $10M in dead cap in 2024.

mercury22nathan wrote:however, the Dolphins apparently can not release him as long as he is supposedly physically unable to play - hence the above post about not being able to run and jump - without first negotiating an injury settlement. so the Dolphins will be in a bit of a squeeze to negotiate an injury settlement and release him with a post-June 1 designation before his 2023 contract year becomes guaranteed.

Technically, I believe the Phins can cut Jones whenever they want, and if he decides to he can then file an injury grievance against the team. I read that players win their grievances about half the time. But I'm not even sure Jones can file an injury grievance in this case, since his injury occurred before last season.

Who knows...it seems like a sticky situation regardless.

I agree.... Sticky and could get nasty.

At this point, all I know for sure its:
One - Jones ain't gonna play this season for the Phins
Two - This free agent blunder is going to cost the Phins
a) not just against the cap
b) but in the lack of ability to sign a new free agent or lock in one the Phins few good players
c) Grier will likely go out and do the same thing again

(Sigh)

I know this is all part and parcel of doing business in the league nowadays, but what really rankles is I KNEW the Phins should not have gone out and paid that much money to Jones.

As DF316 is prone to whine....er...comment... "Why don't these boobs listen to us??"

finfanatic wrote:
  a) not just against the cap
  b) but in the lack of ability to sign a new free agent or lock in one the Phins few good players
 c) Grier will likely go out and do the same thing again

d) it created an unhappy situation with X Howard as the Phins went out and paid more for a lesser talent at the same position

JMP wrote:...and likely pay Tua $23 million on his 5th year option.

ah yes, the Herald has an article up today about this very issue, but perhaps that's a whole different thread.

finfanatic wrote:free agent blunder

I don't think it was a blunder at all. We got two very good seasons out of him, and then he got hurt. The contract was very team friendly with an easy out this offseason, which enables us to cut him post June 1 with minimal cap damage.

I get my numbers from overthecap.com, and this is their data on Jones' contract. You can click to see what his cap hits will be if he's cut or traded pre or post June 1 for the length of it.

https://overthecap.com/player/byron-jones/3875

Also, I remain adamant in my stance that as soon as the Fins part ways with him, Jones will suddenly declare himself perfectly fine and sign with the Vikings, and the media will  see nothing wrong with this while bashing and trashing the Fins as usual even when it's revealed that Flores was communicating regularly with Jones all last season. I keep seeing people saying that all through camp Jones was not only fine but getting praised for how well he was doing...and only afterwards suddenly decided not to play. Doesn't seem like a physically crippled player to me! He and Flores orchestrated this from the start, you'll see.

I don't doubt it, 316.

BTW, I typically use Spotrac for contract info. Seems like Spotrac and OTC sometimes have different numbers, but in Byron's case they seem to have the same info.

BTW where is white1? He started the thread and then just kinda noped out

And while I'm at it, where's the NFLPA in all this? You know, the group that's supposed to be so concerned with player safety. Shouldn't they be begging Jones to retire seeing as he's apparently a cripple now? Or do they only save that for Tua?

Busy week for me, I'm lurking here. I don't know how much energy I have to spend on a player whose tenure appears to be well over here....

McDaniel was asked specifically about Jones at the combine and said:

“I know it’s a tough situation from a competitor that loves to play the game of football,” McDaniel said. “The one thing I will say is that throughout the process, Byron’s been able to be the conductor of the train. I think the Dolphins’ organization, the entire training staff and the medical department has supported him on every turn and I think we’ll continue to do that as he presses forward.”

Asked whether Jones at any point expressed concerns about his medical treatment, McDaniel said, “To me specifically, no. I try to keep my ear to the street, so to speak. The bottom line is he feels the way he feels and I think as a leader of professional athletes, I empathize with how everyone truly feels. I think all I can do is support. I know [general manager] Chris [Grier] feels the same way, we can just support the player in the process and do best with that.”

https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/nfl/miami-dolphins/article272627682.html

funny how a guy who is in so much pain never once mentioned it until he realized he was gonna get released and lose quite a bit of money.  this is all about negotiating an injury release settlement at this point.

DolFan 316 wrote:Also, I remain adamant in my stance that as soon as the Fins part ways with him, Jones will suddenly declare himself perfectly fine...

and yes DF316, after getting that settlement, he'll be free to have his miraculous recovery and change-of-heart to keep on playing.

JMP wrote:

finfanatic wrote:free agent blunder

I don't think it was a blunder at all.  We got two very good seasons out of him, and then he got hurt.  The contract was very team friendly with an easy out this offseason, which enables us to cut him post June 1 with minimal cap damage.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one, JMP.

They paid way too much money for him IMO. The whole more than they were paying Howard thing was a HUGE General Management FAILURE IMO.

Free agency should be used to get a team over the top; not as a remedy for shiite drafting IMO.

In Grier's case, not only did he pay way too much for Jones, he also went out and drafted a 1st round CB who stinks it up!!

Speaking off Iggy... I have one So. Fla friend who is hearing some talk about Fangio maybe resuscitating Iggy's failed NFL fortunes!?!?

Color me skeptical for sure, but.... Please let it be so!!!

finfanatic wrote:

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one, JMP.

They paid way too much money for him IMO. The whole more than they were paying Howard thing was a HUGE General Management FAILURE IMO.

Free agency should be used to get a team over the top; not as a remedy for shiite drafting IMO.

In Grier's case, not only did he pay way too much for Jones, he also went out and drafted a 1st round CB who stinks it up!!

Speaking off Iggy... I have one So. Fla friend who is hearing some talk about Fangio maybe resuscitating Iggy's failed NFL fortunes!?!?

Color me skeptical for sure, but.... Please let it be so!!!


[/quote]

Teams pay way too much for free agents all the time - that's how free agency works. That's not a Grier issue, it's an NFL issue. Jones was a near-elite CB when the Phins signed him, and they got two very good seasons out of him as they fielded arguably the best CB tandem in the league. And the Jones deal had nothing to do with drafting Iggy...that was a case of Flores pounding the table for a player he liked so he could continue to load up on DBs.

Now if you want to debate the merits of the Flores philosophy of building the D from the back-end forward at that time, I'd land on the side of pass rush being more important than having two top corners and a young "understudy". But there's no denying that when we had both Jones and Howard healthy, that defense was exciting and fun to watch. I don't think anyone was complaining about Byron's contract when we were embarrassing the Ravens on national TV in 2021!

As an example of free agency: in 2020, the Phins signed Jones to a deal averaging $16.5 M per year. The next day, the Bengals signed Trae Waynes to a deal averaging $14 million a year. Jones played 30 games for the Dolphins, all as a starter. Waynes didn't play at all in 2020, played just 5 games for the Bengals in 2021 (4 as a starter), and was then cut in 2022. Obviously, the guaranteed money on the contracts was much higher for Jones since he was a MUCH better player, but even with that difference the Jones contract looks like a steal compared to the contract the Bengals gave Waynes.