WWYHD? What would you have done in the draft?

by finfanatic Sun Apr 30, 2023 10:31 am

Just for kicks...

And we can check this in a year or two and see who is NFL GM material and who is just a football board poseur!! Smile

51 - CB Cam Smith - Has some what I consider major cons, but is a first round talent if talent was all that was required to make it in the NFL. I was all in for OG O'Cyress Torrence who went at # 59 to the Bills. Looking around, I have seen some CONs for Torrence talking about his footwork? Watch the tape and he had no problems with footwork and handled everyone who faced him. In the SEC. Even against the GA Defense.
Better CB picks IMO - Tyrique Stevenson and DJ Turner.
Honorable Mention - DT Gervon Dexter, TE Brenton Strange, S Sydney Brown

84 - Hard to argue with Devon Achane here if you wanted a RB but...I think I would have gone for LB Trenton Simpson. Best move would have been to trade down for a lower 3rd and a 4th or 5th rounder IMHO. Again, who will trade with you though?
Honorable Mention - TE Darnell Washington, OT Wanna Moriss, DT Siaki Ika

197 - WR/TE/HB Elijah Higgins - This one is...strange. I am not sold on him as a WR so him switching to TE seems like a stretch, but... I read he is a YAC monster so maybe this will work out? AT TE I would have drafted TE Zack Kuntz who went to the effin' Jets at #220!
DT D J Dale whom I predicted for the Phins at #197 went undrafted and is now with the Bills.

238 - OT Ryan Hayes - He's a project who may not see the field this year IMO. I think at OT for a project developmental player, this was a good pick. He did start at Mich after all.
Honorable mention - DT Moro Ojomo, DBs Nic Jones and Alex Austin.

And if you look at the Undrafted FA list, it is apparent the Phins went into the draft with some UDFAs already in mind. They REALLY wanted NT Brandon Pill it seems. If they can't sign Seiler and/or Wilkins, maybe Pill can fill the gap! At 345lbs he can fill a big gap!

Again, the loss of that 1st round pick REALLY scroogied up this draft IMO. Ross should be unceremoniously beaten and whipped everyday until he sells the team IMHO!

by DolFan 316 Sun Apr 30, 2023 11:17 am

I'll post more complete thoughts later, but when someone a whole lot of people were calling the best guard in the draft falls to you at 51, and your O-line is below average at best, and you could strengthen two spots with one pick, then you damn well better take him. But Grier refused out of fear due to past screwups. I on the other hand would have no such hangups and taken Torrrence who IMO was the no-brainer choice there.

As far as Achane goes, you have to go all the way back to 2008 to find the last time a sub-200 lb RB did much of anything. Chris Johnson, Jamaal Charles and Ray Rice were all drafted that year, and are 1-3 in career rushing yards by RBs of that size since then. And all three had at least 10 lbs on Achane. My point is, RBs that small drafted in the past decade or so just haven't done much of anything in the NFL. It's almost like being able to run really fast in a straight line isn't enough and can be neutralized by NFL coaches, or something. If Achane was all that, the why was he the 6th RB taken? And how many times will he ever be thrown the ball?

https://stathead.com/tiny/TNAem

Unfortunately the run on TEs that none of us saw coming meant that almost none of them were available at 84 worth taking that high except for Washington, who by this time we found out had bad knees. So he'd have been off my board. Gotta say Simpson would've been the BPA there over Morris. If I'm being honest I'll admit I didn't see Brodric Martin going as high as he did but then again the Lions were badly overdrafting players the whole time.

I knew Kuntz wouldn't be drafted by this team because he's a Gesicki clone. What I didn't know was that Grier would troll us by drafting a big WR and converting him to TE instead of taking an actual TE. And then that 7th round OT was just Grier sending a message to the fans. "Oh, you wanted O-line? Well take your 7th rounder and like it, bitches!" Just flat-out spite right there. Now when this schlub can't beat out Grier's chosen ones Eich or Jackson he gets to gloat about it and act as if the fans are idiots. The Vikes got DeWayne McBride at 211, he'd likely have been my pick in the 6th.

SO...Torrence, Simpson, and McBride. 7th round probably Ojomo. I miss out on TE, but only because of Washington's knees and the unexpected early run, and I address both lines, LB and RB.

by HalCHorn Sun Apr 30, 2023 11:54 am

Would have tried to trade down at least once. Assuming I couldn't:

Schmitz
Jones
McBride or Trice
Kahler Hasilassie or Sterling Thomas (both UFA's as it turned out)

by CarsonChris Sun Apr 30, 2023 11:58 am

I understand picking CB in round 2. We have two aging vets as our starters. It's possible one or both are past their prime.

Achane is a stretch for me. I would prefer a 6ft 220lb back. A workhorse back. To me Achane is a speed threat. It almost seems like we are building a spread offense solely built on passing.

My biggest concern is the drop off in productivity from our starting QB to our backup QB and the fact we did nothing to protect Tua. Protecting Tua should have been our #1 priority.

by DolFan 316 Sun Apr 30, 2023 6:50 pm

CarsonChris wrote:I understand picking CB in round 2. We have two aging vets as our starters. It's possible one or both are past their prime.

Then why is Grier paying both of them so much? Again, that's all on him.

Achane is a stretch for me. I would prefer a 6ft 220lb back. A workhorse back. To me Achane is a speed threat. It almost seems like we are building a spread offense solely built on passing.

More like, an offense solely built on passing specifically to just two players. At a time when pretty much every other team is doing its best to get everyone involved in their offenses, leave it to the Fins to go the other way Rolling Eyes

Mind you, this would be a great offense--40 years ago.

My biggest concern is the drop off in productivity from our starting QB to our backup QB and the fact we did nothing to protect Tua. Protecting Tua should have been our #1 priority.

Grier is so scared to draft O-linemen before the 7th round that he'd rather just sign FAs and gobble up even more cap space. But I'm sure the Bills, Jets and Pats have no idea how stupid they are for continuing to insist on drafting O-line Rolling Eyes

by **JMP** Mon May 01, 2023 4:25 pm

My responses are below, preceded by >>>:

finfanatic wrote:
51 - CB Cam Smith - Has some what I consider major cons, but is a first round talent if talent was all that was required to make it in the NFL. I was all in for OG O'Cyress Torrence who went at # 59 to the Bills. Looking around, I have seen some CONs for Torrence talking about his footwork? Watch the tape and he had no problems with footwork and handled everyone who faced him. In the SEC. Even against the GA Defense.
Better CB picks IMO - Tyrique Stevenson and DJ Turner.
Honorable Mention - DT Gervon Dexter, TE Brenton Strange, S Sydney Brown
>>> Smith is a much better prospect that Stevenson - not even close. I like Turner and Brown, but I had Smith way above them.
Strange is a player I liked a lot, but I had him as a day 3 pick.
I would have liked an OL here, probably Torrence, but I am completely on-board with Smith. Love the pick.

84 - Hard to argue with Devon Achane here if you wanted a RB but...I think I would have gone for LB Trenton Simpson. Best move would have been to trade down for a lower 3rd and a 4th or 5th rounder IMHO. Again, who will trade with you though?
Honorable Mention - TE Darnell Washington, OT Wanna Moriss, DT Siaki Ika
>>> I've been on the Achane train for awhile. Perfect fit for this offense as a runner and receiver. Speed kills.
Washington's knees scare me - I wouldn't have touched him once that info came out.
Blake Freeland and Dawand Jones would have been interesting here, but I have no complaints about Achane.

197 - WR/TE/HB Elijah Higgins - This one is...strange. I am not sold on him as a WR so him switching to TE seems like a stretch, but... I read he is a YAC monster so maybe this will work out? AT TE I would have drafted TE Zack Kuntz who went to the effin' Jets at #220!
DT D J Dale whom I predicted for the Phins at #197 went undrafted and is now with the Bills.
>>> Higgins is going to be a big slot receiver and H-back. Great hands and route-running, breaks tackles and gets YAC and has very good speed. This guy could be a major weapon as a role player. I love the scheme fit and can't wait to see the many ways McD uses him. I have a feeling this will end up being a major steal.
Kuntz is a wasted draft pick IMO. Big guy that has questionable hands, can't block and runs poor routes.
I was thinking OL or DL - preferably OL Andrew Voorhees.

238 - OT Ryan Hayes - He's a project who may not see the field this year IMO. I think at OT for a project developmental player, this was a good pick. He did start at Mich after all.
Honorable mention - DT Moro Ojomo, DBs Nic Jones and Alex Austin.
>>> Exactly what I want in a 7th round pick: premium position, starting experience, major program, fits the scheme. Hayes checks all the boxes.
I would've gone OL also, maybe Emil Ekiyor.

by **JMP** Mon May 01, 2023 4:31 pm

CarsonChris wrote:Protecting Tua should have been our #1 priority.

Both concussions occurred on plays where Tua was well-protected and had tons of time to throw. Pass pro wasn't awful last year, even with backups in the lineup. It could certainly be better, but it was much better than 2021 and I expect it to improve more this year.

I think a couple of the UDFA OL can be good, and we will add a vet OL soon (maybe Cam Fleming?) So, the OL is still being worked on.

by Umix10 Mon May 01, 2023 5:04 pm

JMP wrote:Both concussions occurred on plays where Tua was well-protected and had tons of time to throw. Pass pro wasn't awful last year, even with backups in the lineup. It could certainly be better, but it was much better than 2021 and I expect it to improve more this year.

I tend to agree. In 13 games he threw for 3,548 yds and 25 TD'S. We all know since the day he got here that he holds on to the ball entirely too long. The RB's by comittee were 4.9 and 4.7 YPC on a combined 275 carries(Mostert and Wilson respectively). What really put stress on Tua was McDaniels overly complicated verbage in his playcalling. Time and time again we saw how late plays came into the huddle, causing Tua to have less time to change protection, call hot routes, change plays. Not saying its the only reason but look how clean and concise his throws are when he comes out with time on the clock.

JMP wrote:I think a couple of the UDFA OL can be good, and we will add a vet OL soon (maybe Cam Fleming?) So, the OL is still being worked on.

Fleming or Lewan would be nice, as long as the contract is right

by **JMP** Tue May 02, 2023 9:01 am

Umix10 wrote:
JMP wrote:Both concussions occurred on plays where Tua was well-protected and had tons of time to throw. Pass pro wasn't awful last year, even with backups in the lineup. It could certainly be better, but it was much better than 2021 and I expect it to improve more this year.

I tend to agree. In 13 games he threw for 3,548 yds and 25 TD'S. We all know since the day he got here that he holds on to the ball entirely too long. The RB's by comittee were 4.9 and 4.7 YPC on a combined 275 carries(Mostert and Wilson respectively). What really put stress on Tua was McDaniels overly complicated verbage in his playcalling. Time and time again we saw how late plays came into the huddle, causing Tua to have less time to change protection, call hot routes, change plays. Not saying its the only reason but look how clean and concise his throws are when he comes out with time on the clock.

JMP wrote:I think a couple of the UDFA OL can be good, and we will add a vet OL soon (maybe Cam Fleming?) So, the OL is still being worked on.
Fleming or Lewan would be nice, as long as the contract is right

Yeah, McD definitely needs to simplify the play calling. But what will help even more is calling more run plays, and getting Tua to throw short more. With the RBs averaging almost 5 yards a carry, it's borderline-criminal that we were near the bottom of the league is rushing attempts. And this offense would be unstoppable if Tua could learn to hit the backs and TEs on shorter, high-percentage routes to get more easy first downs. Continue to feed Hill and Waddle - but get other players involved too. The additions of Berrios, Achane and Higgins should help.

Give me Cam Fleming in FA - that would be great. I don't know about Lewan...I don't like the injury history or the fact that he said at some point that he only wants to play LT.

by **JMP** Wed May 03, 2023 2:17 pm

FYI on Dawand Jones:

https://brobible.com/sports/article/dawand-jones-fell-in-draft/

Cleveland Browns Dawand Jones, the massive offensive tackle from Ohio State who many predicted would go in the first round of the 2023 NFL Draft, fell all the way to the fourth round.

Many have been left wondering what caused Jones to fall so far in the draft, and now it seems that the truth behind his draft stock has finally been revealed.

According to Sports Illustrated’s Albert Breer, Jones’ draft process was plagued with mishaps and issues that ultimately turned teams off to him. Breer reported that Jones dealt with constant weight questions, mishandled the Senior Bowl and Pro Day, and worse, actually told teams that his dream was to play in the NBA, not the NFL.

...

Jones’ talent is undeniable, but his draft process has left many wondering if he has the right mindset and work ethic to succeed at the next level. Only time will tell if he can prove the doubters wrong and become the dominant force many predicted him to be.

I don't think Jones was ever going to be a first round pick, but this is interesting in any case.

by finskev Thu May 04, 2023 9:11 am

I wanted the Guard at 51 but I have seen Smith Play His Whole Time at Carolina , He makes some Nice Plays but He is a Little Handsy with the Wr's leading to Holding and Interference Calls. RB I like because of Speed and His open field Running, Under Mcdaniel we will never have a Bell Cow RB . Looking Forward to the First Time they put Hill, Waddle, Mostert, Achane on the Field at same Time.

by **JMP** Thu May 04, 2023 9:18 am

finskev wrote:I wanted the Guard at 51 but I have seen Smith Play His Whole Time at Carolina , He makes some Nice Plays but He is a Little Handsy with the Wr's leading to Holding and Interference Calls. RB I like because of Speed and His open field Running, Under Mcdaniel we will never have a Bell Cow RB . Looking Forward to the First Time they put Hill, Waddle, Mostert, Achane on the Field at same Time.

Yeah, Smith definitely needs to clean up his technique. But I am confident he'll do that - we have a great coaching staff and he'll be learning from two of the best corners in the game.

Yeah, I can't wait to see the speed on offense. It was crazy last season, but now adding Achane, Berrios, Anderson and Higgins to the mix it's going to be absolutely insane!

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