Re: Landry traded to Browns for 4th in '18 + 7th in '19

by rightchea Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:18 pm

The WR draft group is weak this year and trading Landry shouldn't be hard but the issue isn't who they trade him to but what are we going to get from this deal. The Browns have tons of picks this year and if Miami is looking to be compensated then they need to go after teams that need WR. 49ers, Browns, Saints, Ravens is all I can think of.

I would hate to see Landry on a different team and I not stop being a fan if they do this.

by **JMP** Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:44 pm

rightchea wrote:trading Landry shouldn't be hard but the issue isn't who they trade him to but what are we going to get from this deal.

Exactly. I don't see any team trading a first. Maybe a later second round pick...but IMO a 3rd is more likely. Maybe a 3rd and a player?

by Umix10 Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:08 pm

A third would be too much considering Miami is looking for another team to assume all the risk. If you narrow that down to teams that have cap room it comes down to a few. If you consider that Miami lost all leverage when they franchised him The offer won’t be higher then a 4th rounder maybe a 5th. The real thing is Miami won’t have any say unless it’s a sign and trade deal. BUT!!!!!!!! If you were wiling to sign and trade, you should have just signed the guy in the first place. IMHO, this a Suh type situation. The PLAYER, is talented but, the TALENT doesn’t equal WINS. Production should equal Wins. Wins = Money. If there is production but no wins we need to dump whoever the fuck it is no matter what.

by Degarmo Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:03 pm

If Landry's contract is shitty to the Phins, why would anyone want to trade for that contract? I'd just wait out the year. I'm not fully versed on NFL contracts though. If he is traded, can they restructure this franchise contract, because I would not subject my team to eating that money for a slot receiver.

by **JMP** Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:55 pm

Degarmo wrote:If Landry's contract is shitty to the Phins, why would anyone want to trade for that contract? I'd just wait out the year. I'm not fully versed on NFL contracts though. If he is traded, can they restructure this franchise contract, because I would not subject my team to eating that money for a slot receiver.

The franchise amount is just a tender...sort of a placeholder until a long-term deal is worked out or a trade happens. Any team trading for Landry would have to give him a brand new contract...the $16 million franchise number doesn't matter in that case. However, if the Phins can't trade Landry and can't sign him to a long-term deal by July 16, then he would play the 2018 season on a one-year deal at the franchise amount of $16+ million.

by Degarmo Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:35 pm

You know, I think I knew that once upon a time, but I doesn't smart so gud NE more.

I'd offer a 6th and a bag of Cheetos and see if the Phins bite.

by white1 Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:40 pm

A 3rd should be the LEAST the fins are willing to get in return. Because if he leaves in free agency, at the numbers we are talking about, we will get a 3rd compensatory pick for him.

by **JMP** Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:21 pm

white1 wrote:A 3rd should be the LEAST the fins are willing to get in return. Because if he leaves in free agency, at the numbers we are talking about, we will get a 3rd compensatory pick for him.

All depends on what teams are offering. It seems like the Phins are desperate to trade him, so they'll have to accept what they get. Remember - they apparently tried to trade Landry in November and didn't like the offers they got - I'm not sure teams are suddenly going to offer more now than they did then. A 3rd and a player sounds right to me, but we'll see. I'm not saying that's what I want - of course I'd want more for the best player on the team - but I think that's the realistic view.

by Degarmo Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:59 pm

I don't know guys, we know the Cheetos can perform, and look at what we normally do with draft picks. This might be a no-brainer.

by Degarmo Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:03 pm

In all seriousness, if you're going to trade Landry, just trade everyone for whatever you can get, Tannehill, Jones . . . anyone over the age of 27, and let's just start over. Draft your QB and some O-Line this year, and trade down, stockpile picks in the upcoming drafts. This will be the one time you hear me say this, but if we are going that route, try to keep Cutler, or sign a stopgap (is Gooney-Goo-Goo-Gus Frerotte still avaialble?).
We're not in any kind of position to make a run with one or two or six players. By the time they get this "fixed", if they ever do, everyone will have aged out of the system or be gone via FA. I think they just need to accept defeat at this point and start over - a real start over this time, i.e. empty the kitchen completely.

They won't do that. We all know that.

So, realistically, the smart move is to re-sign Landry to a very good contract, make him happy without killing yourself over it.

by white1 Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:20 am

In all seriousness, if you're going to trade Landry, just trade everyone for whatever you can get, Tannehill, Jones . . . anyone over the age of 27, and let's just start over. Draft your QB and some O-Line this year, and trade down, stockpile picks in the upcoming drafts. This will be the one time you hear me say this, but if we are going that route, try to keep Cutler, or sign a stopgap (is Gooney-Goo-Goo-Gus Frerotte still avaialble?).
We're not in any kind of position to make a run with one or two or six players. By the time they get this "fixed", if they ever do, everyone will have aged out of the system or be gone via FA. I think they just need to accept defeat at this point and start over - a real start over this time, i.e. empty the kitchen completely.

They won't do that. We all know that.

So, realistically, the smart move is to re-sign Landry to a very good contract, make him happy without killing yourself over it.

Great post and you've boiled down exactly why this regime (if smart) SHOULD work on keeping Landry instead of trading him.

If we move Landry, we create yet another gaping hole on a roster that's already full of them. Far and away, way too many "needs" to address in a single offseason. Especially with a weak and expensive group of free agents to choose from.

That's exactly why this regime should do everything in their power to keep him. Worse case, he stays and plays under the tag.

Going to the core of your post and your point, as I interpret it, is this simple fact. Gase - Tannenbaum - Grier are going into year 3 of the roster under their management. How can you approach Ross and say "nothing has worked, we are blowing up the roster and starting over?" They just can't. Might as well resign instead.

A NEW REGIME would likely take the approach you outlined. Maybe you keep Tannehill, because his contract is reasonable and the veteran QB market is just through-the-roof ludicrous. But you surely draft your QB of the future this year in a draft very deep with prospects. But you also trade away Landry, even for a 3rd or 4th round pick, you release Suh, and probably bite the bullet on other bad contracts by releasing guys like Alonso, JuWaun James, and Branch. Cut the high priced underperformers, build through the draft and literally start over.

This regime could have done it in year 1. Now, it's too late.

by **JMP** Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:10 am

Agee with both of you.

The roster should have been blown up in year 1. It wasn't. Now, Gase and Tannenbaum (Grier is just along for the ride, so I don't even consider him) are in "save my job" mode...which means, "win now...or else". With that in mind, they are not replacing Tannehill, so we can cross off first round QB from the list.

Landry is an interesting case, because "win now" should equal "resign Landry". But this regime has done everything to at least make it seem that they don't want him. Dumping your best player seems to go against "win now", but Gase just may be egotistical enough to think his offense can work with any slot receiver.

Really, the receiver they should be looking to trade is Parker - while he still has at least a little bit of value.

Anyway, there's really no rhyme or reason to what Tannenbaum and Gase have done their first 2 years, so I don't expect year 3 to make any sense either. We'll see what happens, but I have a feeling we're headed for a bunch more WTF moves from this group.

by Umix10 Mon Feb 26, 2018 2:40 pm

If they trade Landry to Arizona for Iupati, I will officially end my fanfare with the Miami dolphins until an entirely new regime is in place and NO holdovers at all. Not even the owner.

by white1 Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:19 pm

If they trade Landry to Arizona for Iupati, I will officially end my fanfare with the Miami dolphins until an entirely new regime is in place and NO holdovers at all. Not even the owner.

Curious, did you read that as a rumor somewhere? Or are you making an educated guess?

by **JMP** Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:30 pm

More about Landry and the franchise tage:

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-dolphins/fl-sp-fl-dolphins-landry-trade-combine-20180226-story.html

One of the things the Miami Dolphins will likely do at the NFL Scouting Combine, which begins Tuesday in Indianapolis, is gauge wide receiver Jarvis Landry’s trade value. And although the rules say the Dolphins would be owed two first-round picks in a trade for Landry, they could get significantly less.

Miami has placed the non-exclusive franchise tag on Landry. That means Landry is free to negotiate with other teams and sign an offer sheet. The Dolphins have the right to match the offer.

It’s important to note the Dolphins can’t trade Landry until he signs their offer sheet.

It’s also important to note the team that signs Landry to an offer sheet could work out any trade compensation with Miami the two teams find workable.

In other words, the Dolphins won’t necessarily receive two first-round picks if they trade Landry.

So, in a way any potential Landry trade could be viewed as two separate transactions:

-- A negotiation between Landry and the new team on a contract, one that would presumably lower the $16 million franchise-tag salary;

-- A negotiation between the new team and the Dolphins for trade compensation for Landry because it’s assumed no team would want to give Miami two first-round picks.

...

If Landry signs Miami’s offer sheet he’d be guaranteed a salary of about $16 million for 2018. The official figure won’t be known until the salary cap is set next month.

Both Landry and the Dolphins would prefer to work out a multi-year contract – the Dolphins want to lower Landry’s salary-cap number, and Landry wants long-term security. Representatives from both sides could further their contract discussions at the Combine.

by Umix10 Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:09 pm

white1 wrote:
If they trade Landry to Arizona for Iupati, I will officially end my fanfare with the Miami dolphins until an entirely new regime is in place and NO holdovers at all. Not even the owner.

Curious, did you read that as a rumor somewhere? Or are you making an educated guess?

https://cardswire.usatoday.com/2018/02/25/mike-iupati-trade-might-work-for-both-cardinals-dolphins/

by **JMP** Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:10 pm

Umix10 wrote:
white1 wrote:
If they trade Landry to Arizona for Iupati, I will officially end my fanfare with the Miami dolphins until an entirely new regime is in place and NO holdovers at all. Not even the owner.

Curious, did you read that as a rumor somewhere? Or are you making an educated guess?

https://cardswire.usatoday.com/2018/02/25/mike-iupati-trade-might-work-for-both-cardinals-dolphins/

Makes sense for the Dolphins...an aging OL on the wrong side of 30 coming off an injury-plagued season where he played just 1 game. The Dolphins are attracted to players like that just like a moth to a flame.

by rightchea Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:54 pm

So the Chiefs just traded Marcus Peters and a 6th rd for a 4th and 2nd in 2019. Miami is probably looking for something within that price range. I wouldn't be surprised that Landry goes to a different team an dominate.

by white1 Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:37 am

Makes sense for the Dolphins...an aging OL on the wrong side of 30 coming off an injury-plagued season where he played just 1 game. The Dolphins are attracted to players like that just like a moth to a flame.

Well, I won't quit watching the team if this happens.

But I will be upset. And I will write a strongly worded email to the team leadership and Ross that I'm not happy about it! Smile

by **JMP** Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:54 am

white1 wrote:
Makes sense for the Dolphins...an aging OL on the wrong side of 30 coming off an injury-plagued season where he played just 1 game. The Dolphins are attracted to players like that just like a moth to a flame.

Well, I won't quit watching the team if this happens.

But I will be upset. And I will write a strongly worded email to the team leadership and Ross that I'm not happy about it!

I'm actually a big fan of Iupati. I loved him the year he came out in the draft and I've kept an eye on him throughout his career. He's a beast. But - he hasn't played a full season since 2012, and last year he missed 15 games after elbow surgery. He's not the player he once was. Certainly better than any guard the Dolphins have had in many years, but this team has such a bad track record with injured players.

by mercury22nathan Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:22 am

so let me get his straight.

One concern with the idea of cutting Ja’Wuan James – an idea that has been strongly considered and remains in play - is the free agent tackle market is weak.

http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/barry-jackson/article202149914.html

the Phins would (perhaps not happily, but still willingly) swallow $9.3M for a turnstile on the right side with a QB coming off knee surgery, because they believe there are no better option FA options rather than pay Landry. and despite the fact that they have no one else to step up and replace his production.

Among the significant work the Dolphins will be doing behind the scenes is trying to find a suitor interested in trading for Landry. That’s right, the Dolphins would like to trade Landry, according to an NFL source, and want to find a team willing to give up something acceptable in return.

If the Dolphins manage to trade Landry the likely compensation, multiple NFL people are saying, would be perhaps a third-round pick.

http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/armando-salguero/article202307674.html

and they would do this for little more than a 3rd rounder in return. headscratcher. wow, Jarvis must've really pissed Gase off just like Ajayi.

by **JMP** Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:35 am

mercury22nathan wrote:so let me get his straight.

One concern with the idea of cutting Ja’Wuan James – an idea that has been strongly considered and remains in play - is the free agent tackle market is weak.

http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/barry-jackson/article202149914.html

the Phins would (perhaps not happily, but still willingly) swallow $9.3M for a turnstile on the right side with a QB coming off knee surgery, because they believe there are no better option FA options rather than pay Landry. and despite the fact that they have no one else to step up and replace his production.

Among the significant work the Dolphins will be doing behind the scenes is trying to find a suitor interested in trading for Landry. That’s right, the Dolphins would like to trade Landry, according to an NFL source, and want to find a team willing to give up something acceptable in return.

If the Dolphins manage to trade Landry the likely compensation, multiple NFL people are saying, would be perhaps a third-round pick.

http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/armando-salguero/article202307674.html

and they would do this for little more than a 3rd rounder in return. headscratcher. wow, Jarvis must've really pissed Gase off just like Ajayi.

I'm just not understanding the issue with right tackle. We just saw both Sam Young and Jesse Davis play just as good (and probably better) than James at a fraction of the cost...and they're still considering paying James a boatload of money??? Huh?? scratch

This is such an easy solution - it should require no thought at all: dump James, and roll with Young or Davis - or even give Eric Smith a look. There's absolutely zero reason to keep James.

As for Landry, the Phins have painted themselves into a corner. They've spent the better part of a year trying to de-value him, and now they're trying to trade him. What an ass-backward approach.

Gase is just like Philbin..can't handle any player that has a personality. And then they wonder why there's no leaders on the team. Neutral

by HalCHorn Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:53 am

Ridiculous. If a third is all you can get, keep him. Of course, that would have been the common sense approach to take with Ajayi as well, and we saw what happened.

by Umix10 Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:50 pm

Marcus Peters played on a very good KC defense. I think that his stats and his play were reflective of a good team defense. But again, production didn’t equal a championship. With the money that he wants it doesn’t make sense for KC to sign him. Just like Alex Smith. I can see why they are doing it but I don’t agree with it. They are a very young team with Hunt and Mahomes leading them. I think that KC wants to get younger offensively and not get stuck with a ridiculous cap number.

MIami on the other hand can’t get the uniforms figured out. Landry is a very good player but this team isn’t a good player away from that trophy. We are several players away. We need to let those money mongers go and rebuild. In contrast to the Chiefs, we don’t have a QB in waiting. Someone else posted that we need to stockpile picks. And i agree if not to use in trades. We need an influx of young players who will eventually make this a dynasty.

by mercury22nathan Thu Mar 01, 2018 9:17 am

There’s a decent chance that Landry is not traded and actually plays for the Dolphins this season, either under a new contract or on his $16 million franchise tender.

http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/nfl/miami-dolphins/article202667769.html

i wish those folks over at the Herald would get their story straight. all along Mando has been reporting that is was very likely that Landry would be gone - now Beasley is telling us there is a "decent chance" he stays. honestly, i kind of felt like Mando's "sources" (Landry's agent) were using him as a negotiations ploy.

of course, if they are trying to keep Landry, but not pay him top dollar, then why say things like...

“I think anytime you have a player that’s really been elite at his spot, if that guy’s not there it makes a big difference and you have to make adjustments,” Gase said.

"so yea Jarvis, we think you're elite, we just don't want to pay you as elite." hmm?

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