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Devonta Smith As Good As We Think???

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Post by DolFan 316 Tue Apr 13, 2021 1:37 pm

Football Outsiders seems to believe it...

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2021/playmaker-score-2021

DeVonta Smith has a monster projection that leaves everyone else in this draft class in the dust. Smith's projection is all the more impressive considering that he gets a significant penalty for entering the draft as a senior. Smith is Playmaker's highest projected senior wide receiver ever, and it is not even close. That spot had previously belonged to former Buffalo Bills wide receiver Lee Evans, whose projection was more than 100 yards/season lower than Smith's.

Why is Smith's projection so high? The bottom line is that Smith had eye-popping statistics even though Alabama did not attempt many passes. The Crimson Tide passed only 425 times in 2020, yet Smith managed to record 1,856 receiving yards and 23 touchdowns. Smith scored a touchdown once every 19 times that Alabama attempted a pass. Only two drafted wide receiver prospects since 1996 scored touchdowns at a higher rate than Smith: Randy Moss and Dez Bryant.

However, what makes Smith's numbers arguably more impressive than those of Bryant or Moss is that Smith had to compete with a lot of talented teammates. Moss' most notable receiver colleague was future undrafted free agent Nate Poole; Bryant's was future first-round tight end Brandon Pettigrew, who was considered more of a blocker than a receiver. By contrast, Smith had to compete for targets with fellow first-round prospect Jaylen Waddle. Of course, Waddle played less than half the season due to injury. However, as a junior Smith also had to compete with future first-round picks Jerry Jeudy and Henry Ruggs III, and Smith outproduced them both.

The conventional argument against Smith is that he is unusually light for a top receiver prospect. Smith weighs in at only 170 pounds. There have only been 14 wide receivers drafted since 1998 who were lighter than Smith and none of them were stars. (Marquise Brown, who has 1,353 yards in his first two seasons with the Ravens, has pretty clearly been the best of the lot.) However, it is also true that none of those wide receivers were especially notable prospects, and none dominated top competition like Smith did at Alabama.

Smith is a one-of-a-kind prospect who managed to put up elite numbers despite consistently having to compete with other first-round picks for catches. Any prospect can bust for any number of reasons, but Smith is about as solid as they come.

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Post by DolFan 316 Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:15 pm

The prognosis for Toney isn't nearly as good however.

Kadarius Toney did not have a true position at Florida until his senior year, when he settled in at wide receiver. Toney has some positives. First, he was a versatile player who ran the ball a lot for a wide receiver. Historically, wide receivers who run the ball during college tend to over-perform expectations after joining the NFL. Second, Toney's unusual path to the upper echelon of draft projections makes it impossible to rule out that he may just be that diamond in the rough.

However, Toney also has potential red flags. Unlike Alabama, Florida was never overflowing with elite talent at the wide receiver position—yet Toney was a non-factor for most of his college career. Even when Toney "broke out," his season was not good relative to former first-round picks. Toney recorded 984 receiving yards, but his team threw 473 passes, resulting in 2.08 yards/team attempt. There are only four first-round picks with lower peak numbers: DeVante Parker, Yatil Green, Cordarrelle Patterson, and Travis Taylor. That is not an encouraging list.

Playmaker Score is not a guarantee. However, Toney remains a dangerous prospect because he so closely fits the profile of past wide receiver busts.

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Post by finfanatic Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:31 pm

Toney is about as elusive in the open field as anyone I have ever seen. Some of that stop and start stuff he does is incredible.

Just like with Kyle Pitts, it took Dan Mullens a while to see the light on how to use the players that McElwain had brought in.
Mullens had Felipe Franks starting because Kyle Trask runs like he has one show in a ten lb bucket of nails! Pitts was relegated to
a strictly TE oriented position. Toney was more a change of pace RB/Motion Speed back for reverses and sweeps.

Once Trask took over at QB, the offense sort of shifted to a more pocket oriented passing attack. And that was when Pitts and Toney took off. Once Mullens started sending them out on passing routes where they could work the mismatches.

But just like with Pitts, I am not SURE Toney can duplicate his college level of play in the NFL. If he can, he will not be a bust. Any scheme that can get Toney in space with the ball will have success IMO.

There IS a reason Pitts and Toney had the year they had this past year. Really two reasons; Mullens stuck with lead-foot Kyle Trask as the starting QB when he prefers a fleet-footed QB like Franks, and the offensive scheme was designed to take advantage of Pitts and Toney's talents IMO.

I agree with the Analysts who say just as important as where you get drafted, is WHO drafts you. A team with smart Offensive coaches and a good scheme will make talented players successful. A bad team with bad coaches and bad scheme and they will not succeed despite the amount of talent.
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Post by HalCHorn Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:40 pm

Great read.

If Torry Holt (he's the guy I see Chase most often compared to) and Larry Fitzgerald are the historical comps to Smith, I'm good with him. Smile

They really like Elijiah Moore also. Could he sneak into the first round? Getting quite a bit of buzz. When a prospect like Bateman isn't getting mentioned much you know this is a deep class. Bound to be some guys surprise late. Their analysis of Milne surprises me; I haven't heard much buzz about him at all.


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Post by Degarmo Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:51 pm

I'll let you know about these guys in a year or two.

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Post by finfanatic Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:35 am

They have Amon-Ra St Brown as being Undrafted??? Am I reading that right?

I saw the Pro Day with him and he definitely looked worthy of AT LEAST a 7th rounder!
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Post by white1 Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:28 am

I'm warming up to D Smith, regardless of the size concerns. Saban kind of summed it up pretty well, everyone would like him to be bigger but his size has not held him back. Either from a performance or injury standpoint. Worse he's had is a jammed/broken finger?

I just don't see us drafting him unless we trade out of the 6 spot, and I'm not sure that will happen. We will have our choice of the top 3 non-QB players on our board, and I think Grier springs on one unless he's blown away by a team desperate to trade up.

This is our time to get another elite player. I hope we don't blow it by trading down too much and collecting a bunch of average prospects instead...
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Post by JMP Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:03 pm

white1 wrote:

I just don't see us drafting him unless we trade out of the 6 spot, and I'm not sure that will happen.  


That's funny, I feel exactly the opposite - I think the Dolphins moved up to 6 to ensure that they get Smith. He almost certainly won't make it passed the Lions at 7 IMO.

Smith is everything the Phins need in a receiver - precise route runner that gets open quickly, excellent hands, ability to separate and get YAC...he's the total package. He's also one of the hardest-working players you'll ever see, and he loves football. His dedication to improving his craft has become legendary in Alabama: he catches 100 passes from the JUGS machine after every practice, and can often be found catching passes on his off days as well. This dude just oozes "Flores player" from every pore.

Prepare for it - Smith is going to be the pick.

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Post by finfanatic Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:38 am

Unless Jamar Chase makes it to #6.

Smile

And I still say Grier may go for Sewell if he is available.
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Post by DolFan 316 Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:43 am

JMP wrote:
white1 wrote:

I just don't see us drafting him unless we trade out of the 6 spot, and I'm not sure that will happen.  


That's funny, I feel exactly the opposite - I think the Dolphins moved up to 6 to ensure that they get Smith.  He almost certainly won't make it passed the Lions at 7 IMO.

Smith is everything the Phins need in a receiver - precise route runner that gets open quickly, excellent hands, ability to separate and get YAC...he's the total package. He's also one of the hardest-working players you'll ever see, and he loves football.  His dedication to improving his craft has become legendary in Alabama: he catches 100 passes from the JUGS machine after every practice, and can often be found catching passes on his off days as well.  This dude just oozes "Flores player" from every pore.  

Prepare for it - Smith is going to be the pick.

UH oh...now that Jmp has predicted it I'm even MORE nervous that it won't happen and FF's nightmare scenario of OT at #6 comes true affraid Razz

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Post by white1 Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:45 am

LOL! Gone are the days of "Wannstedt needs a RT because there isn't one on the roster" and of course we take one.

Yeah, no clue what the Fins are thinking but agree - if Pitts and Chase are gone (or even if Pitts and Sewell are gone) it's a tossup which way the Fins go. Smith may very well be the pick.

I have to say after reading all the scouting reports on him... I'd be comfortable with that pick. No question.
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Post by JMP Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:48 am

finfanatic wrote:Unless Jamar Chase makes it to #6.

Smile

And I still say Grier may go for Sewell if he is available.

I'd be absolutely shocked if the Phins used the #6 pick on a receiver that hasn't played in over a year.  I'd be just as shocked if they drafted an OT at #6, a year after using 1st and 2nd round picks on the same exact position the previous year.  Neither of these moves would make sense to me, given the way this current regime operates.  All signs point to Smith IMO.

Keep in mind that both Flores and Grier have both made comments over the past two years about character trumping everything else, and how they want guys that love football. Both of those statements fit Smith better than they fit Chase or Sewell - I'd argue MUCH better. Add in the fact that Smith just had one of the greatest seasons in college football history, and it just seems like a no-brainer to me.

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Post by white1 Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:57 am

JMP to backup your thinking... the Fins also spent a week with D Smith at the Senior Bowl. So they know him likely better than any team in the league. Makes me think you're correct: He's the top choice at 6.

Also makes the trade seem like solid thinking. Smith at 3 is a reach, no need when top 3 picks are going to be QB. Next 2 picks are all a tossup between another QB, Sewell, Pitts and Chase. Smith a distant possibility and if he does happen to get selected by ATL or CINCY at 4 or 5 just pushes a different elite talent down the board to us. It's a win in any scenario, and a great draft slot to sit in.
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Post by DolFan 316 Thu Apr 15, 2021 9:01 am

JMP wrote:
white1 wrote:

I just don't see us drafting him unless we trade out of the 6 spot, and I'm not sure that will happen.  


That's funny, I feel exactly the opposite - I think the Dolphins moved up to 6 to ensure that they get Smith.  He almost certainly won't make it passed the Lions at 7 IMO.

In every single mock draft I've done (and it must be around 50 at this point, I'm just too obsessed LOL) the Lions go WR at #7 roughly 95% of the time, and when they didn't they took Pitts. If I didn't take Smith they did. If I did take Smith they took Waddle unless Chase fell that far, then they took him. So yeah.

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Post by JMP Thu Apr 15, 2021 9:02 am

white1 wrote:
Also makes the trade seem like solid thinking.  Smith at 3 is a reach, no need when top 3 picks are going to be QB.  Next 2 picks are all a tossup between another QB, Sewell, Pitts and Chase.  Smith a distant possibility and if he does happen to get selected by ATL or CINCY at 4 or 5 just pushes a different elite talent down the board to us.  It's a win in any scenario, and a great draft slot to sit in.

Yeah, the two trades really made a ton of sense and showed real forward-thinking by Grier. I know a lot of people feel that we gave up too much to move back up to 6, but IMO you have to look at the two trades as a single three-team trade. The net result is, we moved down three spots and added a future 3rd and a future 1st - and will still get the same guy we wanted at 3. It's a brilliant strategy that helps us improve both now and in the future.

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Post by finfanatic Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:48 am

We shall see I guess.

I have no problem with Smith being the pick. Assuming he lives up to his Marvin Harrison comparisons... or EXCEEDS them!!

And if any teams is downgrading a player for sitting out last season with all the FUD going around about the chicom virus, I will be greatly surprised.

Sewell sat out, Rousseau, Parsons... a whole lot of guys who are gonna get drafted early sat out. Heck the whole Big Ten almost sat out!

If it was up to me, I would pick Waddle as I think he is the next Tyreek Hill. I think the Phins are going to go Chase (Stephon Diggs-Antonio Brown comparisons) if he is available, and if not, Smith is the fall back. Or maybe vice-versa???

And, depending on how highly they have Sewell ranked, there is a chance he is the pick. The BPA philosophy and all. I really hope not, but...

What is going to be interesting, is if the first four picks are QB, and the BenGals pick Sewell, and the Phins are sitting there with Pitts, Chase, Smith, and Waddle all on the board?

Maybe "Jerruh" can be enticed to trade a pile of picks to come up and get Pitts? And WOULD the Phins trade down if the offer was enough?

That's would be a tough ne IMO.

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Post by CarsonChris Tue Apr 20, 2021 10:55 pm

I wouldn't pick DeVonta if Tua is the future of the franchise. I think the little zinger about Mac Jones is a red flag. Every time Tua misses a throw Devonta will tell people Mac Jones could make that throw. I think he's a riskier prospect than Parsons.

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Post by finfanatic Wed Apr 21, 2021 7:59 am

I think Parsons is a bad dude. You need some bad dudes on defense, but not to the point where they will get suspended for being dumbarse bad dudes.

As woke as the NFL is trying to be, dumbarse bad dudes get suspended. A lot. And often.

Parsons is a talent though. I am having a real hard time seeing him as a Flores guy though.
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Post by JMP Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:11 am

CarsonChris wrote:I wouldn't pick DeVonta if Tua is the future of the franchise. I think the little zinger about Mac Jones is a red flag. Every time Tua misses a throw Devonta will tell people Mac Jones could make that throw. I think he's a riskier prospect than Parsons.

Are you serious? That really makes no sense at all. Smith has already said he'd love to play with Tua again, and he made the comments about Jones to try to hype up his teammate - who at the time was not considered a top QB in this class. Besides, Tua is a much better QB than Jones.

Smith is the ultimate team player and the hardest worker on a team of hard workers...sorry, but that's not riskier than a guy who participated in physically and sexually abusing his teammates.

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Post by JMP Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:14 am

finfanatic wrote:I think Parsons is a bad dude.  You need some bad dudes on defense, but not to the point where they will get suspended for being dumbarse bad dudes.

As woke as the NFL is trying to be, dumbarse bad dudes get suspended. A lot. And often.

Parsons is a talent though.  I am having a real hard time seeing him as a Flores guy though.

My thoughts exactly. Parsons is one helluva football player, and easily the best defensive player in this entire draft. He's a also a strong fit for the Miami defense - on the field. But IF he was really involved in physically and sexually assaulting teammates, and IF he's as immature as everyone seems to think, well...he won't be a Dolphin anytime soon. Those are "IF's" that the team will have to answer.

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Post by white1 Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:24 am

I'm becoming more and more comfortable with the Fins taking D Smith. Today, reports are he measured 6 ft even and 166 lbs in Indy.

We already know he's small. We also know his size never impacted his performance, and his projections are off the charts good.

It's an exception but only due to size. His speed, route running, work ethic, hands - it all points to a player with the potential to become an elite NFL receiver.

Make the pick I'm good with it.
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Post by JMP Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:39 am

Size-wise, Smith came in about as expected. Most projections were 6' or 6'1", between 160-170 pounds - so he's right there.

I really don't think this changes anything...if you liked him before you should still like him, and if you thought he was too small before he's still too small.

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Post by CarsonChris Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:57 am

There were already disgruntled players wondering why Tua was placed into the starting role last year without earning it. Add in a receiver that says Mac Jones is better and you are going to have chatter about Tua's ability to play the game.

I expect Devonta to explode like a bird hit by a Randy Johnson pitch when an NFL safety squares him up.

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Post by CarsonChris Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:59 am


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Post by finfanatic Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:56 pm

Remember Pat White?

Shocked

i have to say I was surprised by the 166lbs.

I thought he was light at 177!



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