13 and 35 Miami's draft

by CarsonChris Mon Oct 18, 2021 10:44 pm

The first two picks Miami is slated to make currently are 13th from San Francisco and the 3rd pick of round 2. I'm pulling for SanFran to continue using Trey Lance. The kid has a slow release. The more he's used the worse their record becomes.

Based on Miami's current record and how our receivers are I tend to think Miami's top need is a big bodied #1 receiver. It's time to move on from Parker and the rest of the injury ward. This sucks since we invested in Waddle. Waddle might develop into a Tyreek Hill but so far he hasn't shown the elusiveness or speed.

With the 35th pick Miami needs to draft a top tier running back. Tua needs some firepower that isn't on this roster. A running back that can gain yards after first contact is a must. A great running back is a young QB's best friend.

The new GM needs a staff that can evaluate the line. Any draft pick added needs to be of the same position of need. Drafting a left tackle to play right tackle keeps biting us in the ass. The player needs continuity unless you don't plan on them starting right away.

It looks like 2022 is back to rebuild. Not a ton of picks. The ones we do have need to be made diligently.

A few FA stop gap players will be key yet again.

by **JMP** Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:53 am

I still think a running back is useless until we fix the OL. If there's no holes to run through, the best back in the world isn't getting much yardage. I'd be looking to draft OL, OL and more OL.

At this point, the 2022 free agent list for OL looks pretty weak. Maybe open the checkbook and try to get Bucs' C/G Ryan Jensen? That's a start.

I'd also look to bring in a free agent WR. Assuming we won't pay Devante Adams what he's looking for, I think Mike Williams would be a smart pickup.

by CarsonChris Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:52 am

JMP wrote:I still think a running back is useless until we fix the OL. If there's no holes to run through, the best back in the world isn't getting much yardage. I'd be looking to draft OL, OL and more OL.

At this point, the 2022 free agent list for OL looks pretty weak. Maybe open the checkbook and try to get Bucs' C/G Ryan Jensen? That's a start.

I'd also look to bring in a free agent WR. Assuming we won't pay Devante Adams what he's looking for, I think Mike Williams would be a smart pickup.

It's hard to evaluate team needs right now. A lot is on the coaching.

by DolFan 316 Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:10 am

After the Grier Error, the real question should be what DOESN'T this team need?

by **JMP** Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:21 am

CarsonChris wrote:

It's hard to evaluate team needs right now. A lot is on the coaching.

Yep. That's the biggest problem I have with this team - I'm not sure how good/bad most of the players actually are, because the coaching staff is so clueless.

We may actually have at least a few keepers on the OL...but I just don't know. Maybe we can roll with Eich at LT and Hunt at RG or RT, maybe even Deiter at C or G. But I'd say we definitely need at least 2 more starters on the line, plus a new jack-of-all-trades guy to replace Davis. Step one, thoogh, MUST be adding a legit OL coach.

You are 100% right, though - at some point we do need a real RB and a big, strong WR.

Some of the college RBs I'm keeping an eye on are Breece Hall (Iowa State), Zach Charbonnet (UCLA), Isaiah Spiller (Texas A&M) and Brian Robinson (Alabama).

by HalCHorn Tue Oct 19, 2021 11:20 am

Spiller looks like the best, though a real sleeper IMO like Elijiah Mitchell turned out to be this year is UTSA's Sincere McCormick.

by mercury22nathan Tue Oct 19, 2021 12:49 pm

believe it at not, i've actually been giving this issue quite a bit of thought lately (especially when i can't fall asleep at night). but i usually dismiss my thoughts cause i figure nobody gives a damn what i (or we) think - and the Phins are gonna Phin regardless. but...

i think theoretically, Miami had the right plan as far as jettisoning bloated contracts of okay players wanting to be paid like stars (how's Tunsil working out for Houston) and building through the draft. it was the execution (or the piss poor selection...Jackson and Iggy specifically, but they're not unfortunately not the only ones) that did this team in.

a wise man (i think both JJ and Parcells) once said that great defenses are built from the inside out... ala, Madison, Taylor and Thomas are not the stars unless Bowens does the dirty work that allows them to be great. our current team seems to be built with DBs (lots of DBs) first and then leftovers on the line and after thoughts as LBers. i get it, its a passing league and coverage corners are a premium. but the best way to stop the pass is to make the QB uncomfortable and that starts upfront.

i've never been a fan of the 3-4. i think its too easy to run on and requires far more talent at LB than Miami has had in a several generations. i think the current talent lends itself to a base 4-3 anyways. Davis is good, but he isn't Richard Seymour NT good. Wilkins is a tweener - not big enough to be a NT not agile enough to be a DE...yet that is where he is playing. i think he would be a better 4-3 DT next to Davis. our new guy J Phillips was terrible as an OLB at UCLA and great as a DE at UMiami...so what do the Phins do...move him to OLB. remember even Jason Taylor began his career as a great 4-3 DE and did not transition to 3-4 OLB until he was forced to. Miami's LBers are the Jerome Baker 225lbs guys who could benefit from more beef in front of them - they are not the 3-4 super athletic thumpers (like the Steelers and Pats LBers of recent glory). i get versatility, but i'm just not sure the defense is tailored to match the talent that's available...despite the current regime being in control of both scheme design and talent acquisition.

now tonight, as i lay awake, i will fix the offense. hahaha.

by **JMP** Tue Oct 19, 2021 3:28 pm

mercury22nathan wrote:believe it at not, i've actually been giving this issue quite a bit of thought lately (especially when i can't fall asleep at night). but i usually dismiss my thoughts cause i figure nobody gives a damn what i (or we) think - and the Phins are gonna Phin regardless.

Don't dismiss your thoughts...post them here!! I LOVE reading your insights about this dysfunctional mess of a team!!!

mercury22nathan wrote:
i think theoretically, Miami had the right plan as far as jettisoning bloated contracts of okay players wanting to be paid like stars (how's Tunsil working out for Houston) and building through the draft. it was the execution (or the piss poor selection...Jackson and Iggy specifically, but they're not unfortunately not the only ones) that did this team in.

That's what really kills me about this whole situation: the plan was absolutely PERFECT, and put us in position to become a perennial contender. Completely tear down the roster, stockpile draft picks and create cap space - that was EXACTLY, 100% the right way to go. And yes, that includes trading Tunsil and Minkah. BUT...once the plan was put in motion, the cap space was wasted and the draft picks haven't moved the needle. So yes - the plan was absolutely perfect, but the execution was a major fail.

mercury22nathan wrote:
a wise man (i think both JJ and Parcells) once said that great defenses are built from the inside out... ala, Madison, Taylor and Thomas are not the stars unless Bowens does the dirty work that allows them to be great. our current team seems to be built with DBs (lots of DBs) first and then leftovers on the line and after thoughts as LBers. i get it, its a passing league and coverage corners are a premium. but the best way to stop the pass is to make the QB uncomfortable and that starts upfront.

This defense does require a ton of DBs, so I get it from that perspective. We have as many as 6 DBs on the field sometimes, so it had to be a priority. BUT...I absolutely agree that pressuring the QB should have been priority #1. And not just scheming pressure, but having players that actually beat the man in front of them and get to the QB without needing to be schemed.

mercury22nathan wrote:i've never been a fan of the 3-4. i think its too easy to run on and requires far more talent at LB than Miami has had in a several generations. i think the current talent lends itself to a base 4-3 anyways. Davis is good, but he isn't Richard Seymour NT good. Wilkins is a tweener - not big enough to be a NT not agile enough to be a DE...yet that is where he is playing. i think he would be a better 4-3 DT next to Davis. our new guy J Phillips was terrible as an OLB at UCLA and great as a DE at UMiami...so what do the Phins do...move him to OLB. remember even Jason Taylor began his career as a great 4-3 DE and did not transition to 3-4 OLB until he was forced to. Miami's LBers are the Jerome Baker 225lbs guys who could benefit from more beef in front of them - they are not the 3-4 super athletic thumpers (like the Steelers and Pats LBers of recent glory). i get versatility, but i'm just not sure the defense is tailored to match the talent that's available...despite the current regime being in control of both scheme design and talent acquisition.

I'm not sure how often we actually use a true 3-4, and I don't have a problem with the scheme itself. I love the idea of being "multiple" and showing different looks. BUT...it just seems like this season, players are constantly out of position and missing plays that should be made. Hell, only 4 teams in the league have more missed tackles than Miami's defense! I blame a lot of that on coaching and preparation, but again, we lack legit pass rushers. Ogbah is an OK pass rusher, and Phillips is still learning - and that's really it. Oh yeah, Baker is an excellent blitzer but for some reason it seems he hasn't been used much in that role this season.

We brought in a bunch of players that, on paper, should have been upgrades this season, like Coleman, Butler, Scarlett, Riley, and they really haven't been. I just don't get it.

One thing I've noticed is that it doesn't seem like we're trying to confuse opposing offenses as much this season as we did last season. I rarely see that 'amoeba' front that confused the hell out of everyone last season, and I rarely see any disguised or other creative types of blitzes. We blitz a TON - only 3 teams blitz more this season - but it's not effective at all. We are last in the league in forced QB hurry percentage, near the bottom in sacks, below middle of the pack in pressures - but #1 in QB knockdowns. What this means is, we are getting to the QB - but too late to have any kind of impact on the QB. In other words, a day late and a dollar short.

It's so frustrating, coming off a season where the defense was #1 in 3rd down stops and near the top in points allowed - and just one season later we are at or near the bottom in every single meaningful defensive category.

by DolFan 316 Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:49 pm

I now seriously think Merc is the best possible GM candidate. Also, he should post way more than he does. cheers

The O-line situation in particular was done exactly how I'd have done it. Draft a bunch of young guys and let them grow together over 3-4 years into a cohesive unit. Problem is, in order for this to work the team doing it has to actually be able to properly evaluate O-line talent, which this team has conclusively proven over the past 25-plus years it cannot do. Even when they have a high enough draft position to take a no-brainer like Long it doesn't work (I hear that QB they passed over is still in the league). When they stumble onto decent O-linemen by accident it still doesn't work, because they get injured (Pouncey) or traded away (Tunsil) or not used right at all (Hunt). And meanwhile the other four O-linemen still suck.

by **JMP** Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:34 pm

DolFan 316 wrote:I now seriously think Merc is the best possible GM candidate. Also, he should post way more than he does.

The O-line situation in particular was done exactly how I'd have done it. Draft a bunch of young guys and let them grow together over 3-4 years into a cohesive unit. Problem is, in order for this to work the team doing it has to actually be able to properly evaluate O-line talent, which this team has conclusively proven over the past 25-plus years it cannot do. Even when they have a high enough draft position to take a no-brainer like Long it doesn't work (I hear that QB they passed over is still in the league). When they stumble onto decent O-linemen by accident it still doesn't work, because they get injured (Pouncey) or traded away (Tunsil) or not used right at all (Hunt). And meanwhile the other four O-linemen still suck.

All true - but I still believe a legit OL coach could make this current OL work with the players we have. I don't believe that they all suck - because they didn't suck last season. I'm not saying they'd be great - but good enough to be at least a middle of the pack line...which would make a huge difference in offensive production IMO.

by white1 Wed Oct 20, 2021 8:55 am

I still think a running back is useless until we fix the OL. If there's no holes to run through, the best back in the world isn't getting much yardage. I'd be looking to draft OL, OL and more OL.

At this point, the 2022 free agent list for OL looks pretty weak. Maybe open the checkbook and try to get Bucs' C/G Ryan Jensen? That's a start.

This is a great thought and likely what I would do. I *think* Eichenburg and Dieter are salvageable. I have high confidence Hunt will continue to develop and I would leave him at RG long term.

Love the idea of free agency to upgrade at either Center or LG.

That leaves the draft to upgrade at RT and finally relegate Davis to depth. He's not a starter.

The next regime (I'm just assuming there will be one) MUST upgrade the offensive line first and foremost. We can't afford to draft a RB or WR, when we can't run block or pass block to execute plays.

by **JMP** Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:15 am

white1 wrote:
I still think a running back is useless until we fix the OL. If there's no holes to run through, the best back in the world isn't getting much yardage. I'd be looking to draft OL, OL and more OL.

At this point, the 2022 free agent list for OL looks pretty weak. Maybe open the checkbook and try to get Bucs' C/G Ryan Jensen? That's a start.

This is a great thought and likely what I would do. I *think* Eichenburg and Dieter are salvageable. I have high confidence Hunt will continue to develop and I would leave him at RG long term.

Love the idea of free agency to upgrade at either Center or LG.

That leaves the draft to upgrade at RT and finally relegate Davis to depth. He's not a starter.

The next regime (I'm just assuming there will be one) MUST upgrade the offensive line first and foremost. We can't afford to draft a RB or WR, when we can't run block or pass block to execute plays.

Excatly. I think you and I are on the same page with the OL.

I've never been the type to say "We MUST have a great OL!" There are plenty of Super Bowl champs that did NOT have a great OL. "Great" is of course the ideal - but the reality is that you need, at the very least, a capable OL. You need an OL that can do a reasonably good job of run blocking and pass protecting. Then, assuming you have a strong QB and position players, your offense can function at a high level. Obviously coaching plays a huge role in this as well.

All this to say, I think fixing the Miami OL should not be all that difficult in the offseason:
Step 1: Hire a legitimate, experienced OL coach.
Step 2: Add a good, experienced veteran interior lineman or two in free agency.
Step 3: Draft a RT.

My new OL would look like this:
LT = Eich
LG = veteran FA
C = veteran FA
RG = Hunt
RT = rookie

I'd give Deiter a chance to compete at LG or C, but ultimately I think he's a quality backup. I think he has played well at C this season, but signing a guy like Jensen would be a massive upgrade.

by white1 Wed Oct 20, 2021 1:11 pm

My new OL would look like this:
LT = Eich
LG = veteran FA
C = veteran FA
RG = Hunt
RT = rookie

I'd give Deiter a chance to compete at LG or C, but ultimately I think he's a quality backup. I think he has played well at C this season, but signing a guy like Jensen would be a massive upgrade.

I'm in.

If Dieter doesn't win a starting job, he's backup at both C and G. Davis is our swing tackle. Maybe Jackson sticks because he's still on rookie deal but he's a backup also. That's 8. How many do we need to carry?

by **JMP** Wed Oct 20, 2021 1:37 pm

white1 wrote:

If Dieter doesn't win a starting job, he's backup at both C and G. Davis is our swing tackle. Maybe Jackson sticks because he's still on rookie deal but he's a backup also. That's 8. How many do we need to carry?

I think 9 - 10 is the usual number of OL.

There are two interior backups I'd keep: Deiter (if he doesn't win a starting job) and rookie Robert Jones. Not sure what to with Kindley...I guess he gets a look in camp, assuming he shows up in shape.

I would dump Davis and add a veteran swing tackle. I've seen enough of him getting beat one-on-one.

I think I might hold on to both Jackson and Little and let the new OL coach choose the winner in camp...loser gets cut/traded. But I'm fine if neither one comes back.

by DolFan 316 Wed Oct 20, 2021 5:12 pm

Believe it or not Davis actually has the 10th highest cap number on this team Shocked

https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/miami-dolphins/

Thankfully he's only signed through next season and the Fins can save a net $2.6 mil by finally dumping him.

https://overthecap.com/player/jesse-davis/4512/

by **JMP** Wed Oct 20, 2021 5:15 pm

DolFan 316 wrote:Believe it or not Davis actually has the 10th highest cap number on this team

https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/miami-dolphins/

Thankfully he's only signed through next season and the Fins can save a net $2.6 mil by finally dumping him.

https://overthecap.com/player/jesse-davis/4512/

He's one of the only players that has been around long enough to get a second contract, so no surprise! LOL

But yeah, he needs to go - finally. I could put up with his subpar play when he was a backup, but as a starter he's just not good. He got manhandled against the Jaguars, as he does every week.

by HalCHorn Wed Oct 20, 2021 5:22 pm

Way too early stab at it. Ready to fix a few problems dammit! Smile

16.

DeMarvin Leal
DT Texas A&M
trade icon
MIA
37.

Tyler Linderbaum
OC Iowa
MIA
74.

Zion Johnson
OG Boston College
trade icon
MIA
100.

Erik Ezukanma
WR Texas Tech
trade icon
MIA
105.

Tyler Allgeier
RB BYU
MIA
134.

Sincere McCormick
RB UTSA
trade icon
MIA
144.

Isaiah Pola-Mao
S USC
MIA
149.

Cade Mays
OG Tennessee
trade icon
MIA
152.

Zion Tupuola-Fetui
EDGE Washington
trade icon
MIA
170.

Wanya Morris
OT Oklahoma
trade icon
MIA
179.

Phidarian Mathis
DT Alabama
MIA
184.

Damone Clark
LB LSU

by CarsonChris Wed Oct 20, 2021 11:07 pm

I'm starting to see drafts with Drake London as a potential fit for Miami. 6-5 receiver and the hardest receiver to bring down in college.

by **JMP** Thu Oct 21, 2021 8:06 am

Nice work, Hal - build the trenches and add some playmakers.

Drake London is having a monster season. Definitely has to be on the radar.

by finfanatic Thu Oct 21, 2021 3:42 pm

Remember: The goobers who are stinking it up on the Line this year kinda-sorta looked like they might develop.

I think about 80-90% of the problems are the O-line coach and the OCs. They just do not understand game planning. You can know ever play backward and forward, but if you don't understand how to call the plays to take advantage of what the defense is doing, it is all moot.

I suspect if a GM and HC coaching staff change is made...and Ross gets someone who actually KNOWS what the heck he is doing in place, and he gets him a good staff... some of these players that are stinking it up now will look sorta-kinda like they may develop...again.

I ain't ready to throw out the baby with the bath water and the wash basin just yet!!!

A few adept draft picks and some much-needed developmental coaching and the Phins are not stinking on ice IMO.

Getting someone who can make the adept draft picks.... And apparently a HC who can assemble a good staff.... that seems to to be the big problem. One the Phins have had since Shula left IMO. (Yes I am including JJ. He couldn't draft offense if his life depended on it!!!)

by **JMP** Thu Oct 21, 2021 4:38 pm

Outstanding post, FF! I completely agree. Coaching seems to be the biggest problem here. Obviously a couple of stud players are needed as well, but IMO poor coaching is the bigger issue right now - and if that gets fixed, we're in much better shape than it may appear.

by HalCHorn Thu Oct 21, 2021 4:41 pm

Flores really looked like he might be the real deal. He certainly coached to win games as opposed to coaching not to lose them in 2019 and 2020. He won the Philly and New England games in 2019 with aggressive moves just to name two instances IMO.

Why on earth this team has regressed to making bone headed play calls and generally non aggressive moves consistently this year is a mystery.

by finskev Thu Oct 21, 2021 5:05 pm

I'm Still trying to figure out Why Van Ginkle is covering TE's and Not Rushing the Passer More, Coaching has made Van Ginkle become Rip Van Winkle.

by DolFan 316 Thu Oct 21, 2021 5:14 pm

finfanatic wrote:(Yes I am including JJ. He couldn't draft offense if his life depended on it!!!)

THANK YOU!!! PREACH AWN, BRUTHA!!! cheers

by HalCHorn Mon Dec 13, 2021 12:27 pm

Well, we're now down to the 22nd pick, but a lot has changed in 6 weeks. Here's my updated stab at it:

At 22, I have a choice between Linderbaum, London and Burks. Tough call, but I think Burks is going to be a playmaker in the NFL and a perfect compliment to Waddle.

1 (22) Treylon Burks, WR, Arkansas

At 41 I am offered a 2023 3rd to move down 7 spots from Cincy. I ask for 197 this year in addition and get it.

2 (48) Nicholas Petit-Frere, OT, Ohio State

Yeah, it was a concern watching him in the Michigan game, but to be fair that was against the # 1 player in this draft and it was just one game.

3 (99) Chad Muma, LB, Wyoming.

Three down LB, safe pick here.

4 (114) Jerome Ford, RB, Cincinnati

Has really emerged in Cincy after transferring from Alabama.

5 (117) Cameron Thomas, DE, San Diego State

You can never have enough pass rushers

6 (152) Sincere McCormick, RB, UTSA

Doubling up at a need position.

7 (157) Tariq Castro-Fields, CB, Penn State
8 (197) Brock Purdy, QB, Iowa State

A backup to groom.

9 (210) Max Mitchell, OT, Louisiana
10 (222) DeAngelo Malone, EDGE, Western Kentucky

So we now have 5 picks in the first 3 rounds next year to boot with Cincy's third.

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