More dirt about Flores

https://clutchpoints.com/former-dolphins-wr-kenny-stills-critical-opinion-on-brian-flores-gives-insight-into-surprise-firing/

According to [former Dolphins WR Kenny] Stills and other sources involved with the Dolphins, Flores played favorites when it came to players and Tua was never one of “his guys.”

The tension has only gotten worse between the two as it had become increasingly clear that Flores was the driving force behind the Dolphins’ odd pursuance of embattled Houston Texans superstar quarterback Deshaun Watson. When Flores was let go, Stills took to Twitter and attempted to explain why he would not want to play for Flores again.

[Stills on Twitter: "Respect Flo as a coach. Idk about the other shit he was on."]

The “other s*it” that Stills is referring to is the rumors that Flores was the one who was having Tua tested for PED’s multiple times during the season because he didn’t believe that his body transformation was natural. There was also the heated halftime argument between Flores and Tagovailoa from a game earlier this season and the incident from October when Tua’s trainer called Flores out. Tagovailoa never came to his coach’s defense after those tweets were released and although the trainer deleted them, the damage had been done. Flores had been called out for his antics and the cat was out of the bag.

In Flores’ defense, as a disciple of New England Patriots head coach Bill Belichick, he was likely just trying to emulate his mentor and be extremely tough on players. The difference is, Belichick has won five rings as a head coach and treats everyone the same–badly. Flores has won zero championships as a head coach and has been treating some players differently than others. That is not going to fly in a locker room full of grown men with families. If he wants to continue working in the NFL, he will have to adjust his approach to allow for more inclusivity. At one point during the season, Tua could be heard yelling at Flores “you can’t treat people this way,” and perhaps that quote sums up why Flores was ultimately let go.

I bolded the juicy parts.

So did Flores really make Tua test for PEDs???  WTF!  

Flores had me fooled.  I thought he was a good dude, but the more I hear the more it seems like he was a grade A asshole.  You can be an asshole when you've got the rings to back it up, but Flores never won shit without Belichick.

It truly is a miracle that Tua hasn't been a total bust while getting nothing but negative support from his head coach.  Flores sabotaged him every step of the way.

Not good. Not good at all.

I think it was Bill Walsh that said "organizations build quarterbacks".

Our "organization" (if you can call it that), with Flores as head coach, was doing the exact opposite. Let's just count the ways:

1. Start off by having the rookie QB compete with a veteran. The veteran has the advantage of an offensive coordinator he's worked with for four years, and 14 years experience in the league.

2. Bench the veteran anyway at midpoint of a winning season to "see what we have" in Tua.

3. Fire offensive coordinators and offensive line coach every season. Or more than once a season. This will guarantee an offense where on one is on the same page because everyone is working to learn a new system.

3a. When hiring OL and OC coaches, look for only the most young and junior. Avoid a veteran coach that can install an offense and game plan based on years of experience in the league.

3b. BONUS POINTS. If you can get the OC from Central Michigan to call plays, do it. ** Charlie Frye, btw, was apparently the play caller for most of the season until Flores made a change and had Godsey do it.

4. Assemble a cast of receivers with extensive injury history. This will ensure that all offseason work put in to establish timing and route nuances will be worthless when the same receivers aren't on the field for large parts of the season.

5. Ignore the running game. Put the offense entirely on the quarterbacks shoulders, regardless of game time weather conditions.

I can only hope, with Flores out of the building, that the voices of Marvin Allen and Reggie McKenzie get louder. Both are recognized as excellent talent evaluators, with Allen the best in preparing for the draft.

We probably DO need a coach with an offense background that has experience working with and developing QBs. Or, a defensive coach with a rock-solid plan to staff that side of the ball with an OC that has that experience.

white1 wrote:Charlie Frye, btw, was apparently the play caller for most of the season until Flores made a change and had Godsey do it.

I heard that Godsey always called the plays. Early in the year, Frye relayed the plays from Godsey to Tua. Later on, Godsey called the plays directly to Tua.

white1 wrote:I can only hope, with Flores out of the building, that the voices of Marvin Allen and Reggie McKenzie get louder. Both are recognized as excellent talent evaluators, with Allen the best in preparing for the draft.

We probably DO need a coach with an offense background that has experience working with and developing QBs. Or, a defensive coach with a rock-solid plan to staff that side of the ball with an OC that has that experience.

Agree on both points.

Really, the key moving forward is to have a true leader at head coach, with strong coaching staffs in all 3 phases working with him, and having the head coach and front office on the same page.

Flores isn't the first Fins head coach to refuse to support his QB to the point of outright sabotage. I don't think I have to tell you who the other coach and QB were...

History always repeats itself.

One of my So. Fla sources has been known to spread unfounded rumors, so I took his "grumblings about Flores" with a grain of salt, but the other guy will not say anything he thinks might be conjecture (his wife has ties to the team), so when he told me he had heard the "grumbling" himself I knew something was up.

Why in heck ain't the media telling us this dysfunctional crapola? It perfectly explains why the product on the field sucks dirty bath arsewater!!

It is like when the media knew all about the Louis Oliver and Gene Atkins locker room brawls and fist fights and never said a word until after the 1995 (IIRC) season was kaput. Why not? We needed to know about stuff like that?

I am SHOCKED that the Phins managed to win 8 of 9 late in the season.

Ross is a complete Dufus, but like I have said before... FLORES NEEDED to GO! That much was obvious even if he had not revealed himself to be an abrasive arsehole.

I doubt Ross is going to get the guy he wants, but anyone who will put a priority on fixing the offense and actually getting the best out of Tua will be a MAJOR IMPROVMENT over Flores the A-hole IMHO!!!

i'm less concerned about Flores being an asshole (a lot, if not most, of these coaches are assholes simply out of self preservation) and think the firing was justified for him actively undermining his starting QB. if you don't like Tua as the QB, fine deal with it in the offseason, but as the HC, it is your job to support and maximize the talent on hand to produce positive results.

mercury22nathan wrote:i'm less concerned about Flores being an asshole (a lot, if not most, of these coaches are assholes simply out of self preservation) and think the firing was justified for him actively undermining his starting QB.  if you don't like Tua as the QB, fine deal with it in the offseason, but as the HC, it is your job to support and maximize the talent on hand to produce positive results.

Well said. The failure to win big games/beat good opponents and the failure to hire legit offensive coaches are right up their too, but sabotaging your young potentially-franchise QB is just not acceptable.

The more I think about the season and the Flores rumors the more I'm glad he is gone. Let him go screw up another team. Hard to teach ALL IN when you are not in with your players.

"We've seen all the conversations that Flores basically had with Tua, where Flores told Tua at halftime of the Tennessee game -- this has all been reported -- I don't think Flores was shy about telling him, 'Hey, I should've picked Mac Jones.' I don't think he was shy about telling him that. In fact, I know that he wasn't. I remember I said there was commentary between the head coach and Tua during the season and I wouldn't reveal what the conversation was. Well, the conversation was, 'Hey, if I'd have knew you were going to be this bad, I would've picked Mac Jones.' "

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/patriots/nfl-rumors-did-brian-flores-tell-tua-tagovailoa-hed-rather-have-mac-jones?cid=Yahoo&partner=ya4nbcs

wow, Flores really was trying to undermine Tua.

mercury22nathan wrote:

"We've seen all the conversations that Flores basically had with Tua, where Flores told Tua at halftime of the Tennessee game -- this has all been reported -- I don't think Flores was shy about telling him, 'Hey, I should've picked Mac Jones.' I don't think he was shy about telling him that. In fact, I know that he wasn't. I remember I said there was commentary between the head coach and Tua during the season and I wouldn't reveal what the conversation was. Well, the conversation was, 'Hey, if I'd have knew you were going to be this bad, I would've picked Mac Jones.' "

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/patriots/nfl-rumors-did-brian-flores-tell-tua-tagovailoa-hed-rather-have-mac-jones?cid=Yahoo&partner=ya4nbcs

wow, Flores really was trying to undermine Tua.

That was a bullshit story. Lombardi already retracted the statement and said that Flores didn't actually say that. As bad as Mike Florio is, Michael Lombardi is even worse - he literally makes stuff up and then retracts it...he's done this numerous times. If you see Lombardi's name on it, ignore it. He's the king of Fake News.

I don't believe for a second that Flores said he should've drafted Jones. Jones sucks, and benefits from having the best offensive coordinator, and one of the best OL and running game, in the NFL. Oh, and Tua beat him both times they played.

By the way, if this WAS true it's the height of irony for Flores.

Cowherd already got smacked down on his podcast trying to advance the "Flores wanted Herbert" theory. His guest reiterated what we all know:  Grier is so collaborative there is NO WAY he would force a QB on Flores that he didn't want.  If Flores really wanted Herbert, that would have been our pick.

In hindsight it looks like Herbert is the better choice.  Before the draft, there we a handful of people (Tannenbaum was one, ironically) who preferred Herbert over Tua.  There was no consensus, and the majority of evaluators ranked Tua higher.  So, my point is, even if you consider this a miss, it was by no means a 'reach' or a highly controversial pick at the time.

Mac Jones may or may not become a good QB.  In Miami, our defense actually handled him pretty easily.  Had we brought a better offense to the game, it would have been a blow out.

EDIT: Forgot to expand on the Flores irony if the Mac Jones comment WAS true. So, we all know that Grier, Flores and Ross were aligned on picking Tua. Following that, Flores was willing to invest a full season and half in his newly minted QB before punting that he would never be good enough? Running a different offense in both seasons he started games? With the worse O-line in the league and one reliable receiving target? Great analysis.

Tua gets AT LEAST one more season to develop and improve. The signs are there that he can get it done, and don't discount his intangibles like character, leadership and work ethic. Did he sulk after Flores berated him in Tennessee? No, he talked about training for poor weather conditions so he would be better prepared next time. The difference between Tua and Tannehill IMO comes down to the intangibles. Tanny isn't half the leader that Tua is, and never made those around him "better".

white1 wrote:

In hindsight it looks like Herbert is the better choice.

Too soon to tell. For all the great numbers Herbert has put up, he has a losing career record and hasn't made the playoffs yet - with an all-star cast at WR and RB. As I've said before, he's just way too inconsistent at this point. Statistically, sure he's better than Tua...but that hasn't translated to anything meaningful yet. If Tua gets a real offense around him, I think he will be better than Herbert - as he was in college.

HA!!! JMP OUT HERE SPITTIN' FACTS TODAY, YA'LL!!! PREACH AWN, BRUTHA!!!

https://dolphinstalk.com/2022/01/brian-flores-stopped-talking-to-his-staff-around-thanksgiving/

It is being reported by Dolphins beat writer Marcel Louis-Jacques of ESPN that Former Miami Dolphins Head Coach stopped communicating to his coaching staff around Thanksgiving time. Per Louis-Jacques,

“He stopped communicating with his staff somewhere around really Thanksgiving and even about things like daily meeting plans,” said Dolphins insider Marcel Louis-Jacques. “It’s my understanding that some of, at least, his assistants felt like they just didn’t know what was going on in his head. They didn’t know what he was thinking. They didn’t know what his plan was. And the incredible thing is that it continued through the winning streak. So they finish 8-1 as he’s not talking to people.”

If this is true - and Marcel Louis-Jacques usually seems to be on the money and not prone to fake news from what I've seen - it really shows what a piece of shit Flores was. What this tells me is that we went 8-1 despite Flores - he had nothing to do with the midseason turn-around and in fact deserves little or no credit for it. He should have been fired well before the season ended. Any team that hires this scumbag gets what they deserve.

I feel completely dirty and embarrassed for getting swindled by this snake-oil salesman. I thought he was a good guy and a decent coach, and it turns out he was neither. Fuck Flores.

Even more dirt:

https://dolphinstalk.com/2022/01/brian-flores-didnt-like-that-tua-played-golf-on-his-off-days-and-had-a-questionable-work-ethic/

According to Armando:

... one of the issues former Dolphins head coach Brian Flores had with Tua was that Flores questioned his work ethic and told some people Tua’s work ethic was “sh-tty” and he didn’t like that Tua didn’t put in extra work on Monday’s and Tuesday’s during game weeks and would play golf on his off days.

Per Armando, Flores was hard on Tua about it and Flores wasn’t quiet about it and made it known he didn’t like this (the golf and not putting in extra work) even when others were around. According to Armando’s sources when Flores found out Tua was golfing on his off days in the season he would become upset and criticize him for that.

If this is true, it's absolutely absurd. Tua worked out like an absolute madman in the offseason - so much so that Flores supposedly accused him of using PEDs because he was in such good shape. And do you know what most NFL players do on off-days? Spend time with family, relax, film interviews and commercials, do their charity work, etc. You cannot practice or exercise 7 days a week without giving your body rest and recharging - it simply isn't possible unless you want to get injured or burned out.

Anyway, just more evidence that Flores is nothing but a Belichick wannabe who, in reality, is nothing but a clown.

Wait, all I ever hear about is how the great players put in more work even on their off days. I agree with Flores. Tua needs more football less golf.

mercury22nathan wrote:i'm less concerned about Flores being an asshole (a lot, if not most, of these coaches are assholes simply out of self preservation) and think the firing was justified for him actively undermining his starting QB.  if you don't like Tua as the QB, fine deal with it in the offseason, but as the HC, it is your job to support and maximize the talent on hand to produce positive results.

Merc, when I say arsehole, I do not mean the likes of Parcells, Jimmah Johnson and Belicheck....those are just brutally honest HCs who tell the players the truth, but an arsehole IMHO, is someone like Flores. Undermining a player, calling up journalist and spewing stupidity, and attempting to takeover every aspect of the team are not normal for a HC IMO.

Flores is a great DC, but I think the whole HC thing for him is one step too high.

We shall see when he gets the next HCing job. I expect good results, then less good results, then BOOM! Another explosion.

I just heard there was some screaming and yelling in some meetings as well, and that led to the Flores not communicating thing.

How a dysfunctional staff like the Dolphins had won 8 of the last 9 is beyond me. Or maybe Flores not attempting to micro-manage the game plans had something to do with it??

And on Herbert: Tua has never won anything either. I would take the height, arm strength and stats any day over short, week armed and poor stats.

Tua may emerge and maybe herbert will just be a stat-poster, but...

Herbert and Tua can both become top notch QB's. It's all about getting the right development. Herbert is further along at this point but two seasons in, Vick looked way ahead of Brees and Big Ben looked far ahead of Eli Manning. It's early.

finfanatic wrote:

And on Herbert: Tua has never won anything either.  I would take the height, arm strength and stats any day over short, week armed and poor stats.

Tua has won more than Herbert so far, and I'll take accuracy and decision-making over arm strength any day. Height is pretty meaningless, and stats only matter if they lead to wins.

CarsonChris wrote:Wait, all I ever hear about is how the great players put in more work even on their off days. I agree with Flores. Tua needs more football less golf.

That's simply not true - why do you think they always show players in the locker room cheering when the coach gives them an off day after a win? Fact is, this is a violent sport that puts unbelievable stress on your mind and body. You need downtime and it simply isn't possible to go through a season without taking time off from the game.

Besides all that, Tua has always been known as an incredibly hard worker, and I've never heard anyone question his dedication. This is just another in a long (and getting longer) list of examples of Flores being an asshole.

All I know is Tua must be incredible at golf. He works on his short game all week long.

CarsonChris wrote:All I know is Tua must be incredible at golf. He works on his short game all week long.

Herbert must have a good short game too, considering that his intended air yards this season were just .6 better than Tua's.

JMP wrote:

CarsonChris wrote:All I know is Tua must be incredible at golf. He works on his short game all week long.

Herbert must have a good short game too, considering that his intended air yards this season were just .6 better than Tua's.

Touché lol.

The thing with Herbert is this: he's just as likely to throw an off-target pass as he is to throw a perfectly placed pass. He was like that at Oregon and he's like that in the NFL. If he ever becomes more consistent, he could be the best QB on the planet. I'm just not convinced it will ever happen. Sure, his arm strength is excellent...but without that consistent accuracy/ball placement I think he's just a stat compiler. The good news is, he's young and can still improve.

Sucks for him that he has such a trash head coach, though...that clown drags the whole team down.

I liked this thread better when people were shoveling dirt on Flores' metaphorical grave...