Grier will fail again

by CarsonChris Tue Jan 18, 2022 12:10 pm

Multiple mock drafts have us selecting an OT in the first round this year. This will be a complete failure no matter which way the OT does or doesn't work out. Grier has spent a good amount of the previous drafts on lineman. This team needs impact weapons. Players that can change the s ore in one play. Miami needs receivers, not broken down receivers, receivers that are on the field. No more of these broken down projects that Grier covets. The line as it stands sucks but it needs a coach not another player from the draft.
This entire draft needs to be offensive weapons including a top tier RB.

OT, Tua needs receivers!

by mercury22nathan Tue Jan 18, 2022 2:26 pm

while i get the skepticism about Grier's seeming inability to draft o-line talent, i am waiting to see how the coaching hire process works out before making any specific prognostications about draft needs. i know what the current needs are as this team is currently constituted and that's fine if all the schemes and approaches stay relatively the same (3-4 with press coverage and RPO reliant offense), but if they hire a new coach who wants to come in and install his own systems, then the draft needs may alter significantly. but yes, eventually this team needs to find a true (reliable) no. 1 receiver target.

by white1 Tue Jan 18, 2022 3:32 pm

If -IF- the pick is another OT, then I agree with CC. Good teams do not keep drafting the same position because the last 2 (or 3 or 4) draft picks at the same position failed. And not years ago - CONSECUTIVE YEARS going back 2 or 3 drafts.

With a rookie QB under his rookie deal, and tons of cap space, this is the year to spend big money and get two proven talents on the offensive line. Solve the issue in free agency, then go into the draft with the luxury of going "best player available" regardless of position.

Wouldn't it be nice if the next TJ Watt falls to us and we can make that selection, instead of reaching to draft the 4th or 5th best OT on the board?

Or if the next WR Jefferson is available and we can take him instead?

by **JMP** Tue Jan 18, 2022 4:45 pm

First, January mock drafts have nothing to do with what the Dolphins (or any team) are going to do in the draft. I wouldn't worry that people are mocking OL to Miami.

Second, previous picks have absolutely no impact on future picks...in other words, just because Grier didn't hit on Austin Jackson, it doesn't mean that he will never pick a good offensive linemen for the rest of his career.

Finally, we'll be picking near the end of the first round. At that point in the draft, the optimal pick is best player available. If that happens to be OL, go for it - God knows we need OL in the worst way. Of course we need impact players - we also need just about every position you can name. We don't even know who the head coach is, and we don't know what will happen in free agency. It's way too early to dismiss any position in round one.

by finfanatic Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:51 am

I agree with JMP.

At #26 and if Jimmy G doesn't throw any picks, it will be lower than that IMO... If Burks is not there or RB Spiller... I would trade down.

A HOF level Center or RT is better than a pick open potential IMHO.

I remember the clamor to draft Parker and I said at the time no often injured WR is worth a 1st round pick. Parker was INJURED when he got drafted if IIRC....

I agree that you should use high picks to get the most impact, but a pick that fixes the Center spot for ten years, or a pick that locks down a Tackle spot for team years IS the IMPACT the Phins need.

That said... I think there will be some IMPACT Players available if the workouts and pro-days go well. There are some really intriguing BIG FAST WRs in this draft that I would not mind using a 26 or lower 1st round pick on.

I suspect Burks will go higher than that, but...

The SO Ala WR Tolbert has some potential IMO.

by CarsonChris Fri Jan 21, 2022 12:11 pm

finfanatic wrote:I agree with JMP.

At #26 and if Jimmy G doesn't throw any picks, it will be lower than that IMO... If Burks is not there or RB Spiller... I would trade down.

A HOF level Center or RT is better than a pick open potential IMHO.

I remember the clamor to draft Parker and I said at the time no often injured WR is worth a 1st round pick. Parker was INJURED when he got drafted if IIRC....

I agree that you should use high picks to get the most impact, but a pick that fixes the Center spot for ten years, or a pick that locks down a Tackle spot for team years IS the IMPACT the Phins need.

That said... I think there will be some IMPACT Players available if the workouts and pro-days go well. There are some really intriguing BIG FAST WRs in this draft that I would not mind using a 26 or lower 1st round pick on.

I suspect Burks will go higher than that, but...

The SO Ala WR Tolbert has some potential IMO.

Grier hasn't shown the ability to pick an offensive lineman. He could get lucky but he tends to pick the second or third best of every player available. His downfall is he thinks he's smarter than he is.

A pick of a tackle shows his previous 2 tackle picks are failures. Failing forward as they say. This team should be primed for a deep playoff run but Grier's ineptitude keeps us at 500. This next year we don't get the cream puff schedule we did this year.

I expect a long dismal year of short passes, interceptions, and terrible line play. The things Grier has managed year after year.

by **JMP** Fri Jan 21, 2022 12:25 pm

CarsonChris wrote:

Grier hasn't shown the ability to pick an offensive lineman. He could get lucky but he tends to pick the second or third best of every player available. His downfall is he thinks he's smarter than he is.

A pick of a tackle shows his previous 2 tackle picks are failures. Failing forward as they say. This team should be primed for a deep playoff run but Grier's ineptitude keeps us at 500. This next year we don't get the cream puff schedule we did this year.

I expect a long dismal year of short passes, interceptions, and terrible line play. The things Grier has managed year after year.

Grier will pick the players that best fit what the new head coach is looking for. It will be a collaborative effort. That's how it was with Flores, and that's how it will be with the new head coach. The issue with Flores was that he completely changed the offense every year and hired poor coaches.

But if we hire a head coach like Daboll or McDaniel, for example, they have a clear vision for an offensive system and won't be making wholesale changes every single season. They know what they want/need, and that isn't going to change like the weather as it did with Flores. In that scenario, at least, it is much more likely that the Dolphins can hit on offensive players IMO.

by **JMP** Fri Jan 21, 2022 12:27 pm

finfanatic wrote:I agree with JMP.

At #26 and if Jimmy G doesn't throw any picks, it will be lower than that IMO... If Burks is not there or RB Spiller... I would trade down.

A HOF level Center or RT is better than a pick open potential IMHO.

I remember the clamor to draft Parker and I said at the time no often injured WR is worth a 1st round pick. Parker was INJURED when he got drafted if IIRC....

I agree that you should use high picks to get the most impact, but a pick that fixes the Center spot for ten years, or a pick that locks down a Tackle spot for team years IS the IMPACT the Phins need.

That said... I think there will be some IMPACT Players available if the workouts and pro-days go well. There are some really intriguing BIG FAST WRs in this draft that I would not mind using a 26 or lower 1st round pick on.

I suspect Burks will go higher than that, but...

The SO Ala WR Tolbert has some potential IMO.

Exactly. Impact, for this team, could very much be OL. Again - stick with BPA regardless of position if you are picking in the mid-late 20s...that's the best course of action IMO. All the blue-chip prospects will be long gone by then, so you just pick the best player - period.

I also agree that trading down could be a very attractive option at the end of round one.

by HalCHorn Fri Jan 21, 2022 12:45 pm

Teams really don't seem to value the C position highly, which could make that a nice "hit em where they ain't" pick for us. KC got Humphrey at the end of Round 2 last year and he probably has been one of the 10-15 most valuable rookies this year.

by finfanatic Sat Jan 22, 2022 10:01 am

Just to note: I saw a mock on NFLChannel this morning where Burks went #8 overall.

So, let's hope another "bongmask" video pops up for Burks because that will be the ONLY WAY the Phins get him.

I also suspect some of these OTs I have been getting in mocks in the late first or early 2nd will be snapped up much higher than they are now ranked.

by DolFan 316 Sat Jan 22, 2022 5:45 pm

finfanatic wrote:Just to note: I saw a mock on NFLChannel this morning where Burks went #8 overall.

So, let's hope another "bongmask" video pops up for Burks because that will be the ONLY WAY the Phins get him.

I also suspect some of these OTs I have been getting in mocks in the late first or early 2nd will be snapped up much higher than they are now ranked.

Even a bongmask video won't help this time, everyone's totally cool with the reefer madness now. Burks would have to pull a Watson and even then that puts his chances of dropping into the high 20s at only 50/50.

Now if it's suddenly "revealed" that he isn't vaxxed, that would do the proverbial trick.

At any rate the 49ers are reaching the NFC title game just to spite us and drop that pick to the 29-30 range. Then they'll dutifully fall to the Bradys to spite us even more.

by CarsonChris Sun Jan 23, 2022 12:23 am

DolFan 316 wrote:
finfanatic wrote:Just to note: I saw a mock on NFLChannel this morning where Burks went #8 overall.

So, let's hope another "bongmask" video pops up for Burks because that will be the ONLY WAY the Phins get him.

I also suspect some of these OTs I have been getting in mocks in the late first or early 2nd will be snapped up much higher than they are now ranked.

Even a bongmask video won't help this time, everyone's totally cool with the reefer madness now. Burks would have to pull a Watson and even then that puts his chances of dropping into the high 20s at only 50/50.

Now if it's suddenly "revealed" that he isn't vaxxed, that would do the proverbial trick.

At any rate the 49ers are reaching the NFC title game just to spite us and drop that pick to the 29-30 range. Then they'll dutifully fall to the Bradys to spite us even more.

Our draft pick falling is just another Grier bungle. Grier costs us picks, coaches, and talented players. He's the epitome of abject failure.

by DolFan 316 Sun Jan 23, 2022 12:32 am

I know it's wrong, I know it makes me a bad, awful, horribly evil person, but man oh man do I despise Grier right now. I just do.

BTW could this postseason be any worse for this team? The QB they should've tanked for is now one win away from the Super Bowl, a division rival could also get there, the 49ers have decided to keep winning and ruin that draft pick, and at the end of it the Bradys will likely come away with yet *another* title. I picked the perfect time to stop caring. I don't think there will even be an NFL in 2023, global tyranny will have taken hold everywhere by then.

by CarsonChris Sun Jan 23, 2022 10:13 am

DolFan 316 wrote:I know it's wrong, I know it makes me a bad, awful, horribly evil person, but man oh man do I despise Grier right now. I just do.

BTW could this postseason be any worse for this team? The QB they should've tanked for is now one win away from the Super Bowl, a division rival could also get there, the 49ers have decided to keep winning and ruin that draft pick, and at the end of it the Bradys will likely come away with yet *another* title. I picked the perfect time to stop caring. I don't think there will even be an NFL in 2023, global tyranny will have taken hold everywhere by then.

This is the perfect time for the NFL to tell Rodgers to retire. That way they can do away with the thorn in their side.
Did you see the NFL dropped all Covid testing for the remainder of the season for vaxed and invaded players? The NFL didn't want to lose revenue in the playoffs by eliminating players that have false positives and no illness.

by DolFan 316 Sun Jan 23, 2022 11:10 am

CarsonChris wrote:This is the perfect time for the NFL to tell Rodgers to retire. That way they can do away with the thorn in their side.
Did you see the NFL dropped all Covid testing for the remainder of the season for vaxed and invaded players? The NFL didn't want to lose revenue in the playoffs by eliminating players that have false positives and no illness.

I didn't! But I'm not surprised in the least at the rampant hypocrisy. They went from "teams with too many positive testing players will have to forfeit games!" to this real fast Laughing

by finfanatic Sun Jan 23, 2022 11:16 am

Yep, the Grier trade away of the Phins 1st round pick to the Iggles instead of the 49ers 1st rounder was just abject stupidity.

He could have stayed at #12 and gotten a good player.

Of course, if he had sat there at #3 and taken Chase.... Very Happy

That 49ers defense is the real deal. To do that to Rodgers? Of course it was GB's special teams that got man-raped on national TV. The special teams coach should have been tied to a snow machine and dragged for several miles IMO.

by **JMP** Sun Jan 23, 2022 4:26 pm

Not really that much of a difference between picking in the middle or the end of the first...in both cases, all the blue-chip prospects will be long gone. All that really matters is getting good players, no matter where you pick.

by DolFan 316 Sun Jan 23, 2022 7:04 pm

JMP wrote:Not really that much of a difference between picking in the middle or the end of the first...in both cases, all the blue-chip prospects will be long gone. All that really matters is getting good players, no matter where you pick.

In every mock draft I did for weeks the Fins could get either Burks, one of the top OTs, or both as low as the early 20s, let alone where the Eagles are picking.

That's all dead and gone now thanks to Grier. There's no point in them picking *anybody* in the first now, they might as well trade out. Imagine that pick being lower than Barfalo's even if the Bills reach the Super Bowl Shocked

As of right now it could actually happen!

But the Bradys losing (after the obligatory comeback from 24 down just to troll everybody) makes me feel at least a little better so there's that Smile

EDIT: Okay, scratch that part about the Bills reaching the Super Bowl Twisted Evil

My mood is the complete opposite of what it was 24 hours ago that's for sure cheers

by **JMP** Mon Jan 24, 2022 8:51 am

Burks will be a top 10 pick after his workouts and Combine. No doubt in my mind about that.

The Bills-Chiefs game was one of the best ever. Just outstanding! (Especially seeing the Bills' D choke the game away!)

by finfanatic Mon Jan 24, 2022 3:41 pm

This trade with the Eagles has "serious blunder" at the least attached to it, if not outright "fireable offense!" IMHO.

We are talking #15 pick versus #29 (as of now), and could get worse!! If Grier had KNOWN the actual pick rankings, no way he would have made such a stupid trade IMO.

All these games this week proved was....
ONE - You have to have a QB who is at least FRANCHISE level, and...
TWO - if your Defense can't get to the opposing QB, you better be able to outscore the other team (see Number ONE above.)

The rule changes have almost negated the secondary pass defense and great QBs with good to great WRs/TEs have a huge advantage. Add in a top-notch Offensive Minded HC with a great Off scheme and you see what we are seeing now.

I am tossing out any game played in or around ZERO Temps... of course.

Wink

by **JMP** Mon Jan 24, 2022 4:01 pm

finfanatic wrote:This trade with the Eagles has "serious blunder" at the least attached to it, if not outright "fireable offense!" IMHO.

We are talking #15 pick versus #29 (as of now), and could get worse!! If Grier had KNOWN the actual pick rankings, no way he would have made such a stupid trade IMO.

All these games this week proved was....
ONE - You have to have a QB who is at least FRANCHISE level, and...
TWO - if your Defense can't get to the opposing QB, you better be able to outscore the other team (see Number ONE above.)

The rule changes have almost negated the secondary pass defense and great QBs with good to great WRs/TEs have a huge advantage. Add in a top-notch Offensive Minded HC with a great Off scheme and you see what we are seeing now.

I am tossing out any game played in or around ZERO Temps... of course.

Well, we got a first rounder in 2023 as well. I'll take that for moving from 15 to 29. This first round looks underwhelming to me right now, and all the top prospects will be long gone by 15 anyway.

As far as the games this weekend, 3 of the 8 QBs threw for 0 TDs, and 4 scored less than 20 points. And, the QB that had the highest rating and threw the most TDs plays for a team with a Defensive head coach. If anything, I think the weekend showed that special teams and defense still matter.

by mercury22nathan Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:36 am

As good as Waddle was, it must also be considered that by dealing away the third pick, Miami passed up a chance to draft LSU receiver Ja'Marr Chase, who is a Pro Bowler for the Bengals as a rookie.

One way to look at this from a net perspective is that Miami traded away Ja'Marr Chase (or Kyle Pitts) and the 15th pick for Jaylen Waddle, perhaps the 29th pick and a future first-rounder, which is San Francisco's in 2023, so let's estimate it as the 15th pick.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/dolphins-move-down-first-round-225429018.html

by CarsonChris Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:37 am

We need an offense that can compete with Buffalo and Kansas City. We play in the AFC. I'm not worried about the NFC teams until we make it to the Dance.

Tua hasn't shown the ability to score in a shootout. Year two of Tua and the writing is on the wall.

Again, what coach wants to come to Miami and get stuck with a QB that can't throw and a GM that can't pick?

by white1 Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:57 am

Again, what coach wants to come to Miami and get stuck with a QB that can't throw and a GM that can't pick?

It's the Circle of Life. If you can't hire the best candidates, the team flounders and Ross finally cleans house after 2-3 more seasons of futility.

Conversely, you could stumble on the elite candidate that pulls you out of the cycle. IMO best chance there is McDaniel. He's young and getting his first shot, so it's not a huge deal if he has concerns - this won't be his last chance. He has the credibility to build an offense and either make Tua good enough, or clearly point out why he's not. He will need a veteran to run the defense, but there's a few guys on the market that match the description - Martindale and Fangio are two of them.

Frazier, Quinn and Joseph are on more tenuous ground. This will be their second shot as a head coach, and likely last if it doesn't work. How many coaches get three shots at being a head coach? Not many, unless it's someone proven like Parcells, etc. So, if there are real misgivings about the situation in Miami I would expect they could say no.

by **JMP** Tue Jan 25, 2022 2:32 pm

mercury22nathan wrote:
As good as Waddle was, it must also be considered that by dealing away the third pick, Miami passed up a chance to draft LSU receiver Ja'Marr Chase, who is a Pro Bowler for the Bengals as a rookie.

One way to look at this from a net perspective is that Miami traded away Ja'Marr Chase (or Kyle Pitts) and the 15th pick for Jaylen Waddle, perhaps the 29th pick and a future first-rounder, which is San Francisco's in 2023, so let's estimate it as the 15th pick.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/dolphins-move-down-first-round-225429018.html

Pointless argument. The Phins clearly had Waddle ranked over Chase, and Waddle turned out to be great. It's really a non-story.

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