Grier will fail again

CarsonChris wrote:We need an offense that can compete with Buffalo and Kansas City. We play in the AFC. I'm not worried about the NFC teams until we make it to the Dance.

Tua hasn't shown the ability to score in a shootout. Year two of Tua and the writing is on the wall.

Again, what coach wants to come to Miami and get stuck with a QB that can't throw and a GM that can't pick?

Step one is building an OL and adding receivers that can get separation, so our QB can throw to wide open receivers from a clean pocket like Josh Allen does.

Ross has already said that the head coach can decide on the QB, and Tua remains a top prospect with a very high ceiling. No QB could be successful behind this current Miami OL.

George Forder
@GeorgeForder3
·
20h
Tua Tagovailoa on passes that travel 20+ air yards:

On-Target: 69.6% (Per SIS Data Hub)
Adjusted Comp Percentage: 55.2% (per PFF)

Both figures led all NFL passers. #FinsUp

But Tua can't throw. LOL

Joe Burrow got sacked 9 times this weekend. His line is terrible. He's in the AFC championship game. Let's not keep blaming everything on everyone else on Miami's team. A great QB makes a team better.

Tua does not have the arm to throw a 40 yard rope. That's the difference between elite and game manager. Tua is a game manager. Tua's deep passes take forever to get there. That's why they're not thrown often. . He's not in college with the best offensive line in football, the best receivers in football, and the best RB in football. He had the equivalent of playing with 8 first round picks. Maybe more. You just aren't going to amass that kind of talent on an nfl team.

CarsonChris wrote:Joe Burrow got sacked 9 times this weekend. His line is terrible. He's in the AFC championship game.  Let's not keep blaming everything on everyone else on Miami's team. A great QB makes a team better.

Burrow was the league's most sacked QB this season, and it still didn;t stop him from leading the league in yards per pass and finishing second in passer rating. Hmmm There's a reason I wanted the Fins to tank for him.

CarsonChris wrote:Joe Burrow got sacked 9 times this weekend. His line is terrible. He's in the AFC championship game.  Let's not keep blaming everything on everyone else on Miami's team. A great QB makes a team better.

Tua does not have the arm to throw a 40 yard rope. That's the difference between elite and game manager. Tua is a game manager.  Tua's deep passes take forever to get there. That's why they're not thrown often. . He's not in college with the best offensive line in football, the best receivers in football, and the best RB in football. He had the equivalent of playing with 8 first round picks. Maybe more. You just aren't going to amass that kind of talent on an nfl team.

By your logic, Burrow must not be that good since he's playing with one of the best WR groups in the NFL, as well as one of the best RBs in the NFL. (And yet despite that, he won just 1 more game than the Dolphins did in the regular season....)

Joe Burrow had a bad game this weekend. If Tua had a game with 0 TDs and 1 INT, with 9 sacks and less than 20 points, you'd be all over him. Burrow benefited from big plays from his receivers and running backs. His biggest pass was a throw behind the line of scrimmage that Chase ran for 57 yards. And there are plenty of times every game where Burrow has tons of time to throw. As bad as the Bengals' OL is, it is light years ahead of the Dolphins'.

Tua doesn't throw deep often because he doesn't have the time. Deep routes take time to develop. When you are getting pressured in 2 seconds or less, as Tua usually is, deep passes are impossible. That's obvious to anyone that watched a Dolphins game this season. Look at the play where Josh Allen threw the go-ahead TD Sunday. Have you ever seen Tua with that much time to throw to a WR that wide open? I haven't. There is nothing wrong with Tua's arm, and there never has been.





Tua doesn't throw deep often because he doesn't have time. That's the bottom line.

DolFan 316 wrote:
Burrow was the league's most sacked QB this season, and it still didn;t stop him from leading the league in yards per pass and finishing second in passer rating. Hmmm There's a reason I wanted the Fins to tank for him.

And yet the Bengals still had a much better OL than the Dolphins did.

Number of sacks don't correlate to QB production. Look at Russell Wilson, or better yet Deshaun Watson - the most sacked QB in the league during his career.

It's all about pressures and time to throw, not how many times you are sacked. Tua was pressured more than any QB in the league and had the least time to throw. That impacts everything that happens on the field. Add in zero running game, just one legit WR and a first-time OC - and you get a bad offense. And anyone that thinks it's all on the QB clearly has an agenda.

Burrow had a great season. He also has an excellent receiving corps and an excellent running back. He's also going to have a short career if the Bengals can't figure out how to protect him. All of which has nothing to do with the Dolphins anyway.

JMP wrote:Pointless argument.  The Phins clearly had Waddle ranked over Chase, and Waddle turned out to be great.  It's really a non-story.

i agree with you that the Phins targeted Waddle. but i think what you're missing is that Grier made the trade down to 12 more than a month before the draft. way too early. things change. guys get hurt. new information comes out. draft boards shift and other teams make moves (on draft day). and as it turned out, Grier then had to panic move back up to 6 to ensure he got the guy he wanted. the correct move would've been to sit at 3 until draft day and then squeeze a team that wants to move up then. that way it would've given Grier a better idea of how far he could move down and not risk losing Waddle.

the way it turned out Grier moved down too far too soon and then had to give up too much to get back in range to get Waddle.

mercury22nathan wrote:

JMP wrote:Pointless argument.  The Phins clearly had Waddle ranked over Chase, and Waddle turned out to be great.  It's really a non-story.

i agree with you that the Phins targeted Waddle.  but i think what you're missing is that Grier made the trade down to 12 more than a month before the draft.  way too early.  things change.  guys get hurt.  new information comes out.  draft boards shift and other teams make moves (on draft day).  and as it turned out, Grier then had to panic move back up to 6 to ensure he got the guy he wanted.  the correct move would've been to sit at 3 until draft day and then squeeze a team that wants to move up then.  that way it would've given Grier a better idea of how far he could move down and not risk losing Waddle.

the way it turned out Grier moved down too far too soon and then had to give up too much to get back in range to get Waddle.

There is no "correct move". It's a risk either way - if you wait to make that trade, you may not find a trading partner on draft day. Strike while the iron is hot - Grier added an extra 3rd and an extra 1st and still got the player he targeted, who looks like a superstar in the making. That's a win in my book. The 2022 first rounder is almost irrelevant IMO -it's only about 15 or so spots lower, and we still have the additional 1st and 3rd rounders. I'd do that deal every day.

the trade down didn't impact the second trade. Grier could have given Philly either Miami's pick or San Fran's I would think (no one would have predicted SF going this far). He just punched the wrong button on the Philly trade as it turns out by giving them the Miami pick.

HalCHorn wrote:the trade down didn't impact the second trade.  Grier could have given Philly either Miami's pick or San Fran's I would think (no one would have predicted SF going this far).  He just punched the wrong button on the Philly trade as it turns out by giving them the Miami pick.

Yep, exactly. And I know everyone is killing Grier for that Philly trade, but the Niners won just one more game than the Dolphins in the regular season - and at the end of the day, losing 16 or whatever spots in draft position isn't a big deal.

mercury22nathan wrote:

JMP wrote:Pointless argument.  The Phins clearly had Waddle ranked over Chase, and Waddle turned out to be great.  It's really a non-story.

i agree with you that the Phins targeted Waddle.  but i think what you're missing is that Grier made the trade down to 12 more than a month before the draft.  way too early.  things change.  guys get hurt.  new information comes out.  draft boards shift and other teams make moves (on draft day).  and as it turned out, Grier then had to panic move back up to 6 to ensure he got the guy he wanted.  the correct move would've been to sit at 3 until draft day and then squeeze a team that wants to move up then.  that way it would've given Grier a better idea of how far he could move down and not risk losing Waddle.

the way it turned out Grier moved down too far too soon and then had to give up too much to get back in range to get Waddle.

HA!!! PREACH AWN, BRUTHA!!!

The first trade down should've been enough but noooo, Grier literally outsmarted himself. Who cares about 2023? By then we might all be rounded up and put in prison camps. Grier essentially traded himself right out of the first round THIS year! What made him think he was an expert prognosticator? He sure doesn't seem to be an expert at anything else except making sure the Fins say mediocre forever!!!

JMP wrote:Yep, exactly.  And I know everyone is killing Grier for that Philly trade, but the Niners won just one more game than the Dolphins in the regular season - and at the end of the day, losing 16 or whatever spots in draft position isn't a big deal.

16 draft spots isn't a big deal?!?! Try telling any GM that

This was ENTIRELY preventable--twice! Grier could've just waited as Merc said and even then as Hal said he didn't have to give away the 49ers pick thinking he was psychic and could predict their record.

Might as well not even HAVE a first round pick NOW!!!

DolFan 316 wrote:

JMP wrote:Yep, exactly.  And I know everyone is killing Grier for that Philly trade, but the Niners won just one more game than the Dolphins in the regular season - and at the end of the day, losing 16 or whatever spots in draft position isn't a big deal.

16 draft spots isn't a big deal?!?! Try telling any GM that

This was ENTIRELY preventable--twice! Grier could've just waited as Merc said and even then as Hal said he didn't have to give away the 49ers pick thinking he was psychic and could predict their record.

Might as well not even HAVE a first round pick NOW!!!

Nope, it's not a big deal once you get out of the top 10 - especially in this draft, which looks to have a fairly weak first round IMO.

There was nothing to "prevent" - the Dolphins made a trade to guarantee they'd get the player they wanted, and they picked up an extra 1st and 3rd in the process.

I also find it hilarious that the same people that hate every Grier draft pick and think he's the worst GM ever are so concerned about trading down...he's just going to screw it up anyway, right????