BOYER FIRED (was "the official FIRE Boyer thread")

[mercury22nathan]

and now that the offseason has begun, lets get down to business.  when asked about coach staff changes including Boyer...

“You can lend yourself to living with regret if you make any sort of decisions emotionally,” McDaniel said. “So, we’re going to go through the process and you’ve got to kind of let things simmer, really for the entire coaching staff, just like you do with players and have communication. It’s going to take a minute.”

https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/nfl/miami-dolphins/article271243017.html

not an indication that changes are coming, but not exactly an ironclad "YES, he's our man" type endorsement either.

two things are guaranteed about the Miami defense.  first, an inevitable 4th quarter collapse and second, X Howard complaining and blaming someone other than himself.  whether its about not getting enough money or the offense not scoring enough (despite afore mentioned defensive collapses and his own 5 yards off coverage), but could his complaints this year be an indicator of a change?

After Sunday’s game, Xavien Howard made clear that this season did not meet his expectations and that we will see “a different player” next season.

Asked what it will require to get back to that level, he said: “Being put in position to make plays, as I’ve been doing. That’s something you can’t stop. I am going to make plays no matter what happens. If I get put in position to make plays, I’m going to do it.”

He later said: “I get put in better positions, I still can make plays. Putting myself in better positions will help me out this year.”

Asked if coaches didn’t put him in better positions, Howard did not answer. The group interview then ended.

Asked if September groin injuries were an issue all season, he said: “I played every week so I don’t know if a groin can heal every week when you’re playing with it. But you’ve got to deal with injuries. Everybody is not 100 percent and people keep fighting, so that’s what it’s all about.”

https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/barry-jackson/article271228917.html

so it sounds like in Howard's mind, his poor season wasn't about being injured but rather an indictment of the scheme.  wonder if that means a change is coming?

[JMP]

Well, Howard is right. He's a man coverage corner, not a soft zone corner that plays 10 yards off the defender. Obviously he did get beat in man several times this season, but the groin injury can probably account for that. But he should NEVER be asked to give big cushions to the receivers - NEVER. That's not his game and it takes away the one great thing he does: get INTs.

McDaniel is going to step back and evaluate the defense, as he should. And what he'll see is a defense that was 4th worst in TDs allowed, 6th worst in yards allowed and 6th worst in 3rd down conversion rate. And the injuries in the secondary were not a big enough excuse to account for those horrific rankings. The defensive scheme made no sense, and Boyer did nothing to figure out a better way.

Some people might point to the 7 sacks, 2 INTs and 2 forced fumbles we had against Buffalo to try to justify keeping Boyer, and that's all excellent for sure...but even with that, the Bills put up 34 points and had 430 yards, and they converted well over 50% of their third downs. Sorry, that's just not winning football.

McDaniel is a smart dude - he knows what's going on and he'll do the right thing. For an offensive-minded head coach, the worst possible thing he can have is a defense that can't get off the field and allows tons of points.

And while we're at it, I'm sure McDaniel is going to look at special teams and see a total fail there as well. So, I fully expect both Boyer and Crossman to get fired.

In other coaching news, Phins pass game coordinator/QB coach Darrell Bevell is scheduled to interview with the Commanders and Jets for an OC position. I would hate to lose him, but it seems inevitable.

[mercury22nathan]

JMP, i hope you're right and McDaniel is the one making the call cause Grier seems to think the defense is just fine.

Grier, overall on the defense: “Guys, second half of the year, played really well. When Bradley Chubb came in, we moved to top eight in six of 12 metrics we really value, his impact coming in, run and pass.”

https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/nfl/miami-dolphins/article271228932.html

really well? are we sure Grier was watching the same defense as the rest of us? kind of sounds like a guy who is trying to justify in hindsight the trading away of the remaining 1st round pick.

[JMP]

UGH! The Browns hired Jim Schwartz as their DC. He was definitely near the top of my want list.

[finfanatic]

It's tough call for sure. You would hate to blame Boyer for the injuries. But that soft zone got picked apart like buzzards pecking an armadillo carcass!

I am all for Boyer being kicked to the curb as long as:
1) They bring in someone who likes to pressure the QB and utilizes the "blitz from anywhere"
stuff well
2) They get someone who will not RADICALLY change the scheme to fit a new system, that would unseat a bunch of players and require getting new different players. Starting over on D would mean you are relying on Grier and his draft strategies ain't working out too well IMO.

Before I would change to a 4-3 or some other defense, I would keep Boyer and get him better LBs and another Cover CB, and get the defense an identity. Wilkins has the attitude but he gets double teamed way too much to be the focal point of the D IMO. One other big time pass rushing DT/DE who would force the Oline to have to pick and choose whom to double team would make a huge difference for the Phins IMO.

And ultimately, the big question is, would the Phins D with Boyer work without the rash of injuries in the DBs, AND the Phins Offense had a big-time offensive line?

I think the majority of the troubles the Phins had this season would be ameliorated by fixing the Oline. Look at the games where Terran Armstead played and where he did not? It's like night and day. The Phins would still have the whole Tua issue, but even Skylar would look much better behind a stout Oline.

They have to find a solid dependable backup for LT and RT, and get a starting Guard. I think Shell is probably workable at RT, but he is nowhere near Armstead at LT IMO. I hope the Phins can get some help for the Oline in the off-season and not have to focus exclusively on Oline in the draft.

Still nothing says the Phins can't do both. Fire Boyer and fix the Oline. Or fix the Oline and fire Boyer.

[JMP]

I want a defense that maximizes the strength of the top front 7 players we have: Wilkins, Phillips, Sieler and Chubb. With those 4 players alone, the Phins should NEVER have a weak defense. If you are a DC and can't figure out how to maximize talent like that, you shouldn't be the DC - period. That's what it comes down to for me.

[mercury22nathan]

Fire Boyer and fix the Oline. Or fix the Oline and fire Boyer.

i have not been in the vocal fire Grier crowd, but if you're looking to fix the oline too, Grier thinks everything is ok.

Grier indicated the Dolphins are still invested in Liam Eichenberg at left guard and Austin Jackson at right tackle.

“This will be the first offense they will be in two years in a row,” Grier said. “Liam showed signs of playing well, being asked to do stuff he had never done before. {At the time he was injured against Detroit], a GM from another team said he has been playing really well for you.

“Austin was playing really good; he was one we were talking about all preseason. fluke thing, same [ankle] injury [twice in one year], one-in-a-million things. Still young, lot of upside. They’re both part of the plan, and we will give them opportunities to grow and compete.”

https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/nfl/miami-dolphins/article271228932.html

so just like the defense, Grier thinks these guys were playing really good (and needed someone from another team to tell him so). but don't worry, if they need to bring in some more injured players, Grier's got that covered too.

Asked if the team must reassess whether it adds players with a history of injuries, Grier said: “You can’t be scared of stuff. Terron [Armstead], Pro Bowl left tackle. Raheem Mostert had a career year. Chubb, another one.

“They’re good players, the right type of people you bring into a building. You never hope they get [injured], but injuries happen in football.”

i just hope JMP is right and its really McDaniel that is running things, cause these quotes (along with the one about the defense playing really well) do not inspire confidence that he can identify the problems that need to get fixed.

[DolFan 316]

First of all, I am baffled, befuddled and bewildered that this thread wasn't started by the original Boyer basher himself, white1

Second (and I NEVER thought I'd say this) I'm actually on Howard's side for once!

And third, how many times do I have to say it, all this team's problems come back to Grier. He's been the one constant over the past 6 years. Isn't it strange how the exact same problem areas keep cropping up season after season without ever getting solved?

Yeah yeah I know, Ross sucks, but he can't be fired. Grier can, at least in the theoretical sense. And should. I'd fire him before Boyer but that's probably just me.

[finfanatic]

Yeah, I am not FULLY sure about firing Grier. He sets up his draft boards WEIRDLY IMO, and his percentages are crapola and only look good because we Phins Phans have been used to abject failure of drafts, and hitting a few good players looks awesome compared to that.

I think it all goes to the way he is setting up and cross-ranking the players, but ???? Grier being sold on Eichenberg and Jackson sure explains why he was not interested in OT Zach Tom in the 2022 draft doesn't it?

So if they kick Grier to the curb... is everyone prepared if the new guy is Mike Tannenbaum stupid?? Like Charles Harris instead of T J Watt stupid I mean?? Especially stupid was the reasoning behind the move... Because how often does lightning (J J Watt) strike twice in the same family?

That is my fear... Relatively POOR drafting and free agency moves that rarely work out are WAY BETTER than egregiously stupid drafting and over-paying for free agents and destroying a teams salary cap.

Still, it will not get better unless they TRY. I doubt Grier is going anywhere and all we can hope for is McD and his staff have a positive affect on Grier's drafting. We should get a good idea once we see the moves the team makes in free agency this year. They staff has had a whole year and will have the whole off season to work it all out.

I am thinking we see some big changes this year and unless I am wrong, McD and staff have LEARNED a great deal in this season and we will see some good things next season. Assuming the whole Tua thing works out like I hope it does.

[DolFan 316]

Still, it will not get better unless they TRY. I doubt Grier is going anywhere and all we can hope for is McD and his staff have a positive affect on Grier's drafting. We should get a good idea once we see the moves the team makes in free agency this year.  They staff has had a whole year and will have the whole off season to work it all out.

You mean, like the positive effect McDaniel had on Grier when, according to what some here told me, taking Skylar over Purdy was his call?

Then again Grier's personal penchant for just going along with whoever his current coach wants is actually part of his problem. I will die convinced that Flores intimidated him into drafting Iggy. Hunter Long might have been another player Grier was "convinced" by Flores to take just because he came out of BC and for whatever reason that part of the nation is special to Flores and everyone else in the Belichick tree. I think if I was coaching the Fins I could easily talk Grier into taking some random schmuck from Memphis just because. You're the freaking GM Grier, ACT like it!!!

(Then again, Memphis has produced some good NFL kickers over the past decade or so and I do want Tony Pollard, just sayin'.)

[JMP]

Dude, you need to get over the Purdy thing. No team in the entire NFL thought Purdy was worth drafting. There's a lot of things to criticize Grier for, but Purdy isn't one of them - not when every single GM in the draft passed on him over and over and over. Hell, the Steelers drafted Chris Oladuokun in round 7 even before Thompson went off the board! Several analysts had Thompson and Purdy ranked right near each other, rating them both as 7th rounders or priority FAs. Fact is, no one thought Purdy was going to be good, especially not as a rookie.

[JMP]

Broncos DC Ejiro Evero is getting some head coaching interviews, but if he's available he might be the best option for the Phins. He took over for Fangio and if anything that D may have gotten even better.

[DolFan 316]

Dude, you need to get over the Purdy thing.  No team in the entire NFL thought Purdy was worth drafting.  There's a lot of things to criticize Grier for, but Purdy isn't one of them - not when every single GM in the draft passed on him over and over and over.  Hell, the Steelers drafted Chris Oladuokun in round 7 even before Thompson went off the board!  Several analysts had Thompson and Purdy ranked right near each other, rating them both as 7th rounders or priority FAs.  Fact is, no one thought Purdy was going to be good, especially not as a rookie.

Nope. Can't do it. Holding onto this until I leave this world and that's just the way it's going to be.

[mercury22nathan]

Broncos DC Ejiro Evero is getting some head coaching interviews, but if he's available he might be the best option for the Phins. He took over for Fangio and if anything that D may have gotten even better.

interesting possibility, but apparently the Broncos are blocking all DC interview requests - although he has gotten some HC requests too (which Denver can not stop).

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/01/14/broncos-deny-falcons-request-to-interview-ejiro-evero-for-defensive-coordinator/

i guess if he doesn't get a HC job, the Broncos want to make their new HC accept him as the DC (sound familiar). Note, he turned down the Broncos interim HC offer.

[JMP]

Fangio is interviewing for the Falcons DC job.

[white1]

Okay, dammit, if Fangio is in play WHY NOT MIAMI?

I mean, who wouldn't want to run the defense on the other side of a potent offense?

The Falcons certainly aren't it.... come on man SELL HIM ON MIAMI!

[DolFan 316]

I want a defense that maximizes the strength of the top front 7 players we have: Wilkins, Phillips, Sieler and Chubb.  With those 4 players alone, the Phins should NEVER have a weak defense.  If you are a DC and can't figure out how to maximize talent like that, you shouldn't be the DC - period.  That's what it comes down to for me.

This has grown to be my issue as well. Talent-wise, I'm just not seeing how this team is so much worse than the Jets, Pats or Bills and yet the on-field performance was so much worse. I can't even really think of all that many players I'd add to the D TBH. An extra LB or two, another DB or two, and that would be pretty much it. Boyer's coaching and scheme hurt this D more than the injuries IMO.

[HalCHorn]

Joe Whitt Jr. would be a good DC candidate IMO, though his availability might depend on whether or not Dan Quinn gets another HC gig. I'd think if Quinn is hired as HC somewhere Dallas would almost certainly promote Whitt to replace him.

[mercury22nathan]

In other coaching news, Phins  pass game coordinator/QB coach Darrell Bevell is scheduled to interview with the Commanders and Jets for an OC position.  I would hate to lose him, but it seems inevitable.

i had heard on local radio that Bevell turned down the Commanderskins, but its nice to hear the he will most likely be sticking around for another year of developing Tua.

Dolphins quarterbacks coach Darrell Bevell declined opportunities to interview for the offensive coordinator jobs with Washington and the Jets, per NFL Network. For now, he plans on staying with Miami.

https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/barry-jackson/article271255092.html

[JMP]

Great news on Bevell - I really hope he stays. I love the offensive coaching staff that McDaniel assembled, and it would be great to keep them together as long as possible.

[JMP]

The Rams are letting go of STs coach Joe DeCamillis. I'd fire Crossman and bring DeCamillis on board immediately!

[finfanatic]

I hope Ross is not TAMPERING with the off season again and screws the Phins yet again!!!

I heard one friend say Ross is still fully on board with getting Tom Brady to be the QB in Miami!!

I know I have been calling Ross an utter and complete dipshiite, but even I am astonished by the level of dumbarsery if this is indeed true!

I hope we hear what changes if any the Phins are going to make soon. So they can get started interviewing replacements, etc...

But then again, there never seems to be anything to get in a hurry with for this team. Even during a playoff game when the clock is running out, they are still slow!

[JMP]

The Dolphins are not going after Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, or any other starting QB.

I think Brady is going to retire, but if he decides to play one more year I think he goes to Vegas to reunite with Josh McDaniels.

[finskev]

Brady needs to Retire, I mean He didn't have the Usual Fire on Monday Night, Just come off the Field grab his Hat and sit Down. No Throwing Shit or Yelling at People plus He was Bouncing Passes and Throwing 5 Yards behind open Receivers.

[JMP]

BREAKING NEWS:

Ian Rapoport
@RapSheet

The #Dolphins have parted ways with defensive coordinator Josh Boyer, sources tell me and @TomPelissero, with coach Mike McDaniel now set to hire his own DC and some new defensive staffers.

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