Re: BOYER FIRED (was "the official FIRE Boyer thread")

[DolFan 316]

UH oh...I don't have a good feeling at all about this

https://www.profootballrumors.com/2023/01/dolphins-to-interview-lbs-coach-anthony-campanile-for-dc-job

[CarsonChris]

Hard for Miami to interview 49Ers coaches. We know it's coming though. The difference is the 49ers find talent. Miami drafts very little high end talent.

[JMP]

UH oh...I don't have a good feeling at all about this

https://www.profootballrumors.com/2023/01/dolphins-to-interview-lbs-coach-anthony-campanile-for-dc-job

Campanile is a young, up and coming coach that is well-respected. And, always a good idea to hear the opinions of someone that's already in place - it's like a self-assessment. I doubt he gets the job, but nothing wrong with talking with him.

I'm starting to think Fangio isn't coming here. As far as I can tell, the Phins have not set up a formal interview with him. It's possible that they have contacted him, but you would think something would have reached the public if there was any real action.

My guess is the Phins are waiting to see what happens with Demeco Ryans in San Fran. If he gets a head coaching job, the Niners will likely promote from within and McDaniel may go after one of the coaches that doesn't get the DC job - maybe Johnny Holland or Kris Kocurek.

I also think Desai is very much in play.

[mercury22nathan]

UH oh...I don't have a good feeling at all about this

https://www.profootballrumors.com/2023/01/dolphins-to-interview-lbs-coach-anthony-campanile-for-dc-job

yea, i'm not feeling it either. his resume isn't all that impressive.

Before joining the Dolphins, Campanile served as a college assistant for several years at Rutgers, Boston College and Michigan, where he also coached linebackers. He has never been a defensive coordinator in the NFL but spent one season as a co-defensive coordinator at Boston College, and also spent time as an offensive coordinator and defensive coordinator at Don Bosco Prep in New Jersey.

https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/nfl/miami-dolphins/article271526872.html

and the truth is, the Phins LBers haven't been all that impressive since he's been coaching them (and J Phillips development, while coming around, has be relatively slow compared to his overall talent). i'm hopeful that McD is just doing a staff member a favor in getting him interview experience and is not seriously considering him.

[JMP]

The Phins have reportedly asked the Cards for permission to interview Vance Joseph for the DC job. He wouldn't be on my list at all, but I suppose it doesn't hurt to talk with him.

[finskev]

Isn't Vance Joseph a Tampa 2 Scheme Coach. I would say No Also.

[DolFan 316]

VANCE JOSEPH?!?!

The guy who was DC already with this team for one season? The purveyor and perpetrator of the "Wide 9" scheme that everybody here hated at the time? I know I know, that was the miracle playoff season but Joseph oversaw the 30th ranked run D, which was dead last in opposing yards per carry as well!

Man oh man, if McDaniel can't do any better than THIS...(facepalms).

[white1]

Everyone relax.

I believe the two frontrunners are in Miami today: Both Fangio and Desai.

Vance Joseph an obvious Rooney Rule candidate (if Desai doesn't count - and he may not, where I work Indian ethnicity is not a protected class - HR speak).

Also saw this somewhere yesterday. The year Flores was hired - it was the AZ owner ranting and raving about him. The way I understand it, following an ownership meeting it led several teams to interview Flores, with the Fins obviously hiring him. To back that up, Flores is now considered the frontrunner to land the HC job for the Cardinals.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/01/25/dolphins-interviewing-vic-fangio-sean-desai-for-defensive-coordinator-today/

[mercury22nathan]

good news about the confirmation of Fangio's interview in Miami today.

[JMP]

Yep, Fangio interview confirmed for today.

JosinaAnderson
@JosinaAnderson

Vic Fangio is a lead candidate. The “interview” will be more than that. Expected to discuss terms & conditions as well. Mike McDaniel has a strong affinity for him, per league source, again.

Again, we’ll see what Fangio’s response is.

IF Fangio gets the job, I'd expect him to bring Ed Donatell to the staff as well.  Donatell was  Fangio's DB coach in San Fran and Chicago, and his DC in Denver.  I love Sam Madison on staff, so hopefully the Phins can find a way to keep him, but Fangio and Donatell would be a grand slam!

[JMP]

The Phins also requested permission to interview Kris Richard.

Strong candidate list with Fangio, Desai and Richard. McDaniel clearly has a good reputation around the league.

[white1]

High hopes after reading the tweet about terms and conditions.

Ross isn't cheap. Spending money on excellent coaches is a great way to build a contender.

[white1]

I volunteer...white1. cheers cheers cheers He saw the problems all along and as a coach, never would've let them fester as long as they did. I get the feeling he's a real whip-cracker IRL who knows how to get things done, amirite? Like cheap one ply toilet paper, I can tell he's a man who doesn't take shit from anybody Cool

BTW thx for the kind words DF.

In no way, shape or form am I qualified to run the Miami Dolphins defense, as cool as it would be. There's no way I could face this board after the embarrassing season I would turn in trying to fill this role....

[white1]

<peers into crystal ball to view alternate universe where White1 is the defensive coordinator in 2023>

New regular contributing member on the Dolfan Cave: "Boyers Revenge"

'Yeah Tua is playing great and we scored 38 points. AND LOST! This White1 defense is an absolute joke! Where did he learn to coach football, Madden? You know, it wouldn't hurt to blitz every now and then. Good things can happen! Does anyone remember the playoff game last year when we had 7 sacks and the defense SCORED A TD off one of them? Yeah, could have used a play like that yesterday. But noooooo - all White1 wants to do is sit back in a 2 high shell with zero pass rush, and a scheme so vanilla even a high school QB could easily find the gaps. It's like he thinks he's Vic Fangio only without the talent, the staff, the brain or wisdom to develop a game plan and call it. LOL! This guy is lost - worthless. Fire White1 Now!!!

[JMP]

That's awesome, white!!!

[finfanatic]

I volunteer...white1. cheers cheers cheers He saw the problems all along and as a coach, never would've let them fester as long as they did. I get the feeling he's a real whip-cracker IRL who knows how to get things done, amirite? Like cheap one ply toilet paper, I can tell he's a man who doesn't take shit from anybody Cool

BTW thx for the kind words DF.

In no way, shape or form am I qualified to run the Miami Dolphins defense, as cool as it would be.  There's no way I could face this board after the embarrassing season I would turn in trying to fill this role....

Vas ist das!!! Was zum Teufel!!

You have been issued TWO DEMERITS for honesty and integrity on an anonymous message board, W1!!!

What would happen if we all openly admitted our ignorance on all things football. This board would collapse without us internet football warriors pretending to have superior knowledge to the professionals, most of whom are not qualified to wash our jockstraps (as if we had any jockstraps)!!!

Clean up your act and don't let this happen again! We expect full fledged vitriolic posting about the Phins from all our anonymous internet football experts!



I think if I were calling the D I would err the other way....

...Finfanatic's call for a ten-man blitz, leaving one DB to cover the five receivers was unique to say the least. Ultimately doomed to epic failure as was seen is why most Defensive Coordinators choose to actually cover, at the very least, man to man. When the unique "Blitz 10" package was seen to be ineffective after giving up two uncovered long TDs, Finfanatic had the good sense to go to a "Blitz 9" package putting two DBs back in coverage. Alas..."

[DolFan 316]

What would happen if we all openly admitted our ignorance on all things football. This board would collapse without us internet football warriors pretending to have superior knowledge to the professionals, most of whom are not qualified to wash our jockstraps (as if we had any jockstraps)!!!

I've known that for ages, but I still put up with you guys anyway

My brilliant plan as DC would be, "Just tackle the guy with the ball and catch passes thrown to you, how hard can that be?"

[mercury22nathan]

Asked what it will require to get back to that level, he said: “Being put in position to make plays, as I’ve been doing. That’s something you can’t stop. I am going to make plays no matter what happens. If I get put in position to make plays, I’m going to do it.”

He later said: “I get put in better positions, I still can make plays. Putting myself in better positions will help me out this year.”

Asked if coaches didn’t put him in better positions, Howard did not answer. The group interview then ended.

https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/barry-jackson/article271228917.html

so it sounds like in Howard's mind, his poor season wasn't about being injured but rather an indictment of the scheme.

Well, Howard is right. He's a man coverage corner, not a soft zone corner

so yes, we all agree Howard is, and has had his best years as, a man coverage corner - man press specifically. and yes, it was Boyer's adjustment to use more zone this year than ever before that Howard was not happy with.

Since 2019, the Dolphins defense has been one of the most aggressive units in the NFL. It was a defense that relied on man coverage, often placed one deep safety in coverage, whether it be Cover 1 or Cover 3, and blitzed among the highest rates in the NFL.

The Dolphins made personnel changes to allow that philosophy to thrive, notably signing cornerback Byron Jones before the 2020 season to pair alongside Xavien Howard.

Boyer attempted to adjust. The team’s usage of Cover 0, a man-to-man blitz concept with no deep safety, decreased from 12.5 percent in 2021 to 9.8 percent in 2022, according to TruMedia. And the Dolphins were in zone coverage on 55.6 percent of opposing dropbacks, the defense’s highest rate in the past four seasons.

https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/nfl/miami-dolphins/article271666117.html

but here's the problem i've been thinking about lately...

Much of Fangio’s defensive principles are focused on zone coverage with two-deep safeties, presnap disguises and minimal blitzing.

the Dolphins' leading DC candidates Fangio and Fangio-disciple Desai both employ an abundance of zone coverage. so what to do with Howard? will he become disgruntled (again - for like the fifth time)? even if not disgruntled, his skill set is not a match for Fangio's scheme and that's a lot of money to be paying a CB who won't be able to produce as well as he could due to a lack of scheme fit. i know his contract is salary cap prohibitive, so he can't be released, but can he be traded? wouldn't it be worth it to get something of value for him if they could and he's not a fit? or would it be better to force an unhappy player into a scheme that won't see him succeed (he looked awful at times this year in zone)? either way, if the Phins do go with a Fangio based scheme, they're gonna need to somehow get some zone coverage corners onto the roster.

[JMP]

Great point, merc.

I think it comes down to what type of zone you're talking about. A true zone coverage where the corner is responsible for one part of the field may actually play to Howard's other strength, which is reading the QB. But if you're talking about Boyer's zone, which to me looked like just giving the receivers a huge cushion - then yeah, that's not how Howard is going to make plays.

And of course, any successful scheme is going to come down to pressure. Consider this:
According to Pro Football Reference, the Dolphins blitzed 33.3% of the time (3rd highest rate in the league) and had a pressure rate of 21.7% (which was middle of the pack). The Jets (under Saleh, who worked under Fangio for a year) had the lowest blitz rate in the entire league at just 14.9%, yet had a pressure rate of 25.4% (#3 in the league, and just .2% away from #1).

The Eagles, with a Fangio disciple at DC and Fangio himself as consultant, blitzed just 22.1% of the time, had the #2 pressure rate at 25.5% and had 70 (!!!) sacks...with (I think) around 50 from the front 4 alone.

The point is, under Fangio we're not going to ask corners to sit back and do everything themselves. There will be real pressure, different pre-snap looks to confuse the QB, and more players in coverage. All of this will help Howard and the entire secondary.

Here's a cool article about the current Eagles' D:
https://www.si.com/nfl/eagles/news/cracks-on-eagles-defense-are-tied-to-poor-communication

[DolFan 316]

IDK about you guys, but being able to get pressure and sacks without blitzing is my ideal D, and it makes me want Fangio even more

In today's NFL there are no shutdown corners anymore, and the best way to improve pass coverage is to put the QB on his ass so he doesn't even get the throws off. Remember the first Giants-Pats Super Bowl?

IMO Howard's mood will improve when his groin does. Any injury "down there" would make any guy grouchy to say the least!

EDIT: BTW the Eagles became the first team in NFL history to have four double digit sackers in a season So yeah, I want the Fins D to do whatever they are!

https://stathead.com/tiny/w6U0A

[JMP]

IDK about you guys, but being able to get pressure and sacks without blitzing is my ideal D, and it makes me want Fangio even more

In today's NFL there are no shutdown corners anymore, and the best way to improve pass coverage is to put the QB on his ass so he doesn't even get the throws off. Remember the first Giants-Pats Super Bowl?

IMO Howard's mood will improve when his groin does. Any injury "down there" would make any guy grouchy to say the least!

EDIT: BTW the Eagles became the first team in NFL history to have four double digit sackers in a season So yeah, I want the Fins D to do whatever they are!

https://stathead.com/tiny/w6U0A

Yes, getting real pressure and sacks without having to blitz all the time is the ideal. And we have the horses to do it IMO.

What the Eagles did this season is unreal...70 sacks is just insane!

[white1]

IDK about you guys, but being able to get pressure and sacks without blitzing is my ideal D, and it makes me want Fangio even more cheers cheers cheers

Yes.

The blitz, to me, has always been Fools Gold. I believe I've mentioned this before, but Tuesday Morning Quarterback (TMQ) consistently lambasted teams for blitzing when they didn't have to. Namely in 3rd and long or 4th and long situations.

The very good / great QBs in the league are well versed in using their hot routes to beat a blitz. It can be pitch and catch when the WR and QB are on the same page, and the play simply goes to the WR, TE or RB behind the blitzing defender(s).

Boyers defense only reinforces the argument. One of the highest blitz percentages in the league, but middle-of-the pack pressures (meaning not only did we not get a sack, we failed to even pressure the QB on many blitzes) and resultantly one of the worse defenses in the league.

Yes, I'm extremely jealous of a defense like the Jets and Eagles had this season. Because that's sound defensive football. Get pressure with the front 4, blitz rarely as more of a changeup and based on truly advantageous downs and distances, and deliver the metrics that illustrate a strong defense. No, you DON'T BLITZ on 3rd and long because playing your core scheme will more times than not stop the offense from getting a first down. The longer the first down marker is, the less sense it makes to call a blitz.

Blitz when the other offense is pinned in the shadow of their own end zone. Blitz on a first down near midfield when they are not expecting it. Blitz on a random second down. Blitz when you are way ahead and want to put your boot on the other teams neck.

Most times, just play your scheme, mix your coverages, and get pressure with a good front 4. This is the defense I want.

[JMP]

OK, white, you are definitely hired!

[finfanatic]

Well, there is zone, and then there is zone, and then there is whatever Boyer was running!

I don't know if he intended to play matchup zone and the relative inexperience of the DBs made it look like a mutagenic nuclear dumpster fire, but at times it looked like nobody knew who to cover.

Getting a DC who will require new players to fit his scheme seems counter-productive to me. Sure, the D needs to be fixed, but hiring a DC who will have to scrap the whole D and start over is not what the Phins need IMO.

Here's what needs to happen with whomever they hire:
A) Fix the pass rush. Another wiley DT who could make it hard to double-team Wilkins would pay instant dividends IMO.
B) Get rid of the soft zone and play closer to the receivers at the very least. As someone said, paraphrased, "A ten yard cushion sucks three day old dead ARSE!" It's hard to get turnovers when the opposing QB has wide open receivers.
C) While general improvement is needed, if they can STOP GIVING UP 3rd and longs, that would ALMOST fix the D in itself IMO.

I was always afeared Boyer without ToxicTeamKiller Flores was going to be sort of bland and it seemed that way all season. I can only remember a game or two where the D looked sensational the whole game. It would have been nice to see if Boyer could have made it work with two solid cover CBs, but...

He had to go.

Heck, if we have to, we can always start a write-in campaign to get W1 hired!!!

[JMP]

Getting a DC who will require new players to fit his scheme seems counter-productive to me. Sure, the D needs to be fixed, but hiring a DC who will have to scrap the whole D and start over is not what the Phins need IMO.

Here's what needs to happen with whomever they hire:
A) Fix the pass rush. Another wiley DT who could make it hard to double-team Wilkins would pay instant dividends IMO.
B) Get rid of the soft zone and play closer to the receivers at the very least. As someone said, paraphrased,  "A ten yard cushion sucks three day old dead ARSE!" It's hard to get turnovers when the opposing QB has wide open receivers.
C) While general improvement is needed, if they can STOP GIVING UP 3rd and longs, that would ALMOST fix the D in itself IMO.

100% agree with all that. That's why I want Fangio (or, barring that, Desai). I think our current roster fits the Fangio scheme perfectly. Sure, we may need another DL, LB and CB - but we need those things regardless of scheme.

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