Re: Tua Tagovailoa expected to be healthy, throwing for NFL teams by April

by rightchea Tue Feb 18, 2020 9:24 am

I don't see Miami settling for Herbert nor Tua

by **JMP** Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:52 pm

Silly article by Armando. His "source" says the Dolphins are concerned about the hip and possible long-term effects? Wow, what a scoop! Every single team in the league has the same concerns. Until more info is out there, that's the way it will be. Once you see what Tua does pre-draft and get more info from doctors, you can make a more informed decision. It's too early in the process. But I guarantee you - if he lights it up at his Pro Day, he's going top 3.

As for Herbert, I just don't see the Dolphins being overly interested in him, at least not as a top 5 pick. He's got too many questions to go that high IMO. Nothing about him says "winner" to me. That said, I think he's a much better prospect than Daniel Jones, so who knows? It only takes on team to fall in love with him.

by mercury22nathan Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:01 am

JMP wrote:But I guarantee you - if he lights it up at his Pro Day, he's going top 3.

Vegas and Kiper agree with you.

Oddsmakers at Caesars Sportsbook believe the Detroit Lions and the Miami Dolphins are the two most likely landing sports for Alabama quarterback Tua Tagovailoa.

Caesars has the Lions and Dolphins as co-favorites at -110 to land Tagovailoa, who is recovering from a hip injury he suffered in mid-November. Detroit owns the third pick in April's NFL draft, with Miami at No. 5.

Lions general manager Bob Quinn has denied that the team is shopping veteran starting quarterback Matthew Stafford, but ESPN football analyst Mel Kiper Jr. has Tagovailoa pegged to go to Detroit at No. 3.

https://www.espn.com/chalk/story/_/id/28729655/oddsmakers-tab-lions-dolphins-favorites-draft-tua-tagovailoa

by **JMP** Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:21 am

mercury22nathan wrote:
JMP wrote:But I guarantee you - if he lights it up at his Pro Day, he's going top 3.

Vegas and Kiper agree with you.

Oddsmakers at Caesars Sportsbook believe the Detroit Lions and the Miami Dolphins are the two most likely landing sports for Alabama quarterback Tua Tagovailoa.

Caesars has the Lions and Dolphins as co-favorites at -110 to land Tagovailoa, who is recovering from a hip injury he suffered in mid-November. Detroit owns the third pick in April's NFL draft, with Miami at No. 5.

Lions general manager Bob Quinn has denied that the team is shopping veteran starting quarterback Matthew Stafford, but ESPN football analyst Mel Kiper Jr. has Tagovailoa pegged to go to Detroit at No. 3.

https://www.espn.com/chalk/story/_/id/28729655/oddsmakers-tab-lions-dolphins-favorites-draft-tua-tagovailoa

Unless Stafford is seriously injured and unable to play, I just don't see why the Lions would dump him and draft Tua. Even if you ignore the HUGE cap hit (which is really hard to ignore...), Stafford is a good QB coming off a truly excellent half-season of play. Why get rid of him to replace him with a rookie QB that will miss at least part of the 2020 season? I just don't see the logic. As I said before, if they want Herbert that makes a little more sense because at least he's healthy. But again - why get rid of Stafford at this stage unless he's still injured??

by DolFan 316 Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:31 pm

Tua's daddy doesn't want him going to Detroit. Already we see Tua letting other people speak for him. But at least it should--I repeat, should--take away any trade leverage the Lions have.

by rightchea Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:49 pm

Well here is the issue. Stafford shows that he is good but the Lions haven't made it pass the first round since he been drafted in 09. Not only that but the Lions only have four winning records. yeah you could blame the rest of the team for not being that good but when the Lions had players they did okay but never good/great. Stafford is dead weight and a big price tag.

Moving on from Stafford and then getting a rookie QB that is cheaper means they can get more players. They not going to make the same moves that the fins made by cleaning house because it is frowned upon but I know the Fans are ready for a change. Also they trying to get rid of their top DB, it sounds like they are reconstructing to me

by DolFan 316 Wed Feb 19, 2020 3:33 pm

Actually trading UP to draft an injury-prone player with daddy issues who might not last his rookie contract and will be sitting out his rookie season regardless would be grounds for firing Grier right then and there if I was in charge. Seriously, I wouldn't even wait for the rest of the first day of the draft to end, I would just let him know he was gone, tell him to GTFO of the "war room" and make the rest of the picks myself if nobody else in there was man enough to step up and do it. I could probably do a better job than Grier anyway!

And if the Lions do take Tua and try to trade him after the fact I'd be like nope, you made the pick you face the consequences. MAYBE I'd agree to give them a 3rd at the most to take him off their hands but only if he flat-out says he doesn't want to be a Lion. Hell, Detroit taking Tua would likely mean Okudah would be there for the taking and hey look, Howard just got arrested, hmmm... scratch

But at this point I've resigned myself to Grier giving up the other two firsts to move up two fucking spots to do this after everybody knows the Lions want to trade. This is the same guy who agreed to give the Cards a second for Rosen when literally everyone in the known universe knew they wanted to ditch him.

by **JMP** Wed Feb 19, 2020 4:01 pm

rightchea wrote:Well here is the issue. Stafford shows that he is good but the Lions haven't made it pass the first round since he been drafted in 09. Not only that but the Lions only have four winning records. yeah you could blame the rest of the team for not being that good but when the Lions had players they did okay but never good/great. Stafford is dead weight and a big price tag.

Moving on from Stafford and then getting a rookie QB that is cheaper means they can get more players. They not going to make the same moves that the fins made by cleaning house because it is frowned upon but I know the Fans are ready for a change. Also they trying to get rid of their top DB, it sounds like they are reconstructing to me

Stafford was boderline-elite last year before his injury, and it will cost the Lions $32 million against the cap in 2020 to get rid of him. As long as he's healthy, he gives them the best chance to win right now. They need to build up the rest of the team (especially defense) in order to take the next step. For a team that needs to win now, I just don't see the logic in dumping Stafford for Tua.

by **JMP** Wed Feb 19, 2020 4:06 pm

DolFan 316 wrote:Actually trading UP to draft an injury-prone player with daddy issues who might not last his rookie contract and will be sitting out his rookie season regardless would be grounds for firing Grier right then and there if I was in charge. Seriously, I wouldn't even wait for the rest of the first day of the draft to end, I would just let him know he was gone, tell him to GTFO of the "war room" and make the rest of the picks myself if nobody else in there was man enough to step up and do it. I could probably do a better job than Grier anyway!

And if the Lions do take Tua and try to trade him after the fact I'd be like nope, you made the pick you face the consequences. MAYBE I'd agree to give them a 3rd at the most to take him off their hands but only if he flat-out says he doesn't want to be a Lion. Hell, Detroit taking Tua would likely mean Okudah would be there for the taking and hey look, Howard just got arrested, hmmm...

But at this point I've resigned myself to Grier giving up the other two firsts to move up two fucking spots to do this after everybody knows the Lions want to trade. This is the same guy who agreed to give the Cards a second for Rosen when literally everyone in the known universe knew they wanted to ditch him.

I'll never fault a GM for doing whatever it takes to acquire a potential franchise QB. The position is too important to continue throwing crap at the wall and hoping it turns into gold (how's that for a mixed metaphor?). When you have a chance to get an elite talent at QB, you do it.

We got Rosen for essentially nothing. That move was a no-brainer regardless of how it turned out.

Trading up for Tua would be the bold move this franchise has failed to make forever. Time to stop being scared, and take a shot at greatness.

by rightchea Wed Feb 19, 2020 4:15 pm

JMP wrote:
rightchea wrote:Well here is the issue. Stafford shows that he is good but the Lions haven't made it pass the first round since he been drafted in 09. Not only that but the Lions only have four winning records. yeah you could blame the rest of the team for not being that good but when the Lions had players they did okay but never good/great. Stafford is dead weight and a big price tag.

Moving on from Stafford and then getting a rookie QB that is cheaper means they can get more players. They not going to make the same moves that the fins made by cleaning house because it is frowned upon but I know the Fans are ready for a change. Also they trying to get rid of their top DB, it sounds like they are reconstructing to me

Stafford was boderline-elite last year before his injury, and it will cost the Lions $32 million against the cap in 2020 to get rid of him. As long as he's healthy, he gives them the best chance to win right now. They need to build up the rest of the team (especially defense) in order to take the next step. For a team that needs to win now, I just don't see the logic in dumping Stafford for Tua.

This is true that he did well last year and if you look at his numbers he does well every year but his winning record doesn't show it. It all about winning and it not happening

by rightchea Wed Feb 19, 2020 4:16 pm

DolFan 316 wrote:Actually trading UP to draft an injury-prone player with daddy issues who might not last his rookie contract and will be sitting out his rookie season regardless would be grounds for firing Grier right then and there if I was in charge. Seriously, I wouldn't even wait for the rest of the first day of the draft to end, I would just let him know he was gone, tell him to GTFO of the "war room" and make the rest of the picks myself if nobody else in there was man enough to step up and do it. I could probably do a better job than Grier anyway!

And if the Lions do take Tua and try to trade him after the fact I'd be like nope, you made the pick you face the consequences. MAYBE I'd agree to give them a 3rd at the most to take him off their hands but only if he flat-out says he doesn't want to be a Lion. Hell, Detroit taking Tua would likely mean Okudah would be there for the taking and hey look, Howard just got arrested, hmmm...

But at this point I've resigned myself to Grier giving up the other two firsts to move up two fucking spots to do this after everybody knows the Lions want to trade. This is the same guy who agreed to give the Cards a second for Rosen when literally everyone in the known universe knew they wanted to ditch him.

Most teams sit the QB the first year to get use to what happening unless they are needed. But I understand where you are coming from

by **JMP** Wed Feb 19, 2020 4:48 pm

rightchea wrote:
JMP wrote:
rightchea wrote:Well here is the issue. Stafford shows that he is good but the Lions haven't made it pass the first round since he been drafted in 09. Not only that but the Lions only have four winning records. yeah you could blame the rest of the team for not being that good but when the Lions had players they did okay but never good/great. Stafford is dead weight and a big price tag.

Moving on from Stafford and then getting a rookie QB that is cheaper means they can get more players. They not going to make the same moves that the fins made by cleaning house because it is frowned upon but I know the Fans are ready for a change. Also they trying to get rid of their top DB, it sounds like they are reconstructing to me

Stafford was boderline-elite last year before his injury, and it will cost the Lions $32 million against the cap in 2020 to get rid of him. As long as he's healthy, he gives them the best chance to win right now. They need to build up the rest of the team (especially defense) in order to take the next step. For a team that needs to win now, I just don't see the logic in dumping Stafford for Tua.

This is true that he did well last year and if you look at his numbers he does well every year but his winning record doesn't show it. It all about winning and it not happening

They haven't built a team around Stafford. They always have great WRs, but no running game, no TE and a weak OL, and their D always sucks. Stafford has never been the problem there. And again - can they afford the $32 million cap hit to get rid of Stafford???

by rightchea Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:22 pm

Justin Rogers wrote:Now here's where some accounting got lost in translation. The Lions converted $7.2 million of Stafford's $15 million base salary in 2020 to an option bonus. That means the team can either trigger the option, spreading the $7.2 million cap hit evenly over the final four years of the contract, or ignore it and return the QB's base salary to its original $15 million. Because that $7.2 million remains guaranteed, either way, we incorrectly factored into the dead money. In reality, until the Lions trigger the option, that $7.2 million would be taken on by an acquiring team in a trade.

Did you get all that? No? That's OK, it's a lot numbers.

Distilled down, here's what it means: If the Lions were to trade Stafford prior to exercising the option bonus, the dead money the team would be responsible for in 2020 would be $24.8 million, not $32 million.

That means the Lions would still be paying a steeper cap hit to ship Stafford out than keep him, but it would be a far more manageable amount than originally reported — basically $3.5 million more compared to $10.7 million

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/nfl/lions/2020/02/17/clarifying-cap-ramifications-if-detroit-lions-traded-matthew-stafford/4786833002/

So technically what they can do and what Tua agent is hoping for is that they sit him for a year which would allow the Lions to not take such a huge cap hit next year. So the idea of getting Tua is still an option. Yeah he isn't a clear cut option for the Lions but this would be an understandable move.

by **JMP** Thu Feb 20, 2020 8:57 am

rightchea wrote:
Justin Rogers wrote:Now here's where some accounting got lost in translation. The Lions converted $7.2 million of Stafford's $15 million base salary in 2020 to an option bonus. That means the team can either trigger the option, spreading the $7.2 million cap hit evenly over the final four years of the contract, or ignore it and return the QB's base salary to its original $15 million. Because that $7.2 million remains guaranteed, either way, we incorrectly factored into the dead money. In reality, until the Lions trigger the option, that $7.2 million would be taken on by an acquiring team in a trade.

Did you get all that? No? That's OK, it's a lot numbers.

Distilled down, here's what it means: If the Lions were to trade Stafford prior to exercising the option bonus, the dead money the team would be responsible for in 2020 would be $24.8 million, not $32 million.

That means the Lions would still be paying a steeper cap hit to ship Stafford out than keep him, but it would be a far more manageable amount than originally reported — basically $3.5 million more compared to $10.7 million

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/nfl/lions/2020/02/17/clarifying-cap-ramifications-if-detroit-lions-traded-matthew-stafford/4786833002/

So technically what they can do and what Tua agent is hoping for is that they sit him for a year which would allow the Lions to not take such a huge cap hit next year. So the idea of getting Tua is still an option. Yeah he isn't a clear cut option for the Lions but this would be an understandable move.

Thanks for posting that, rightchea. So the cap hit may not be as bad as expected depending on the date of the option bonus. It's still a lot of money to pay a QB that's no longer on the team. And I still don't see how drafting Tua makes any sense for them. Who will their starting QB be in 2020 if they dump Stafford and Tua isn't ready? I suppose they could keep Stafford and draft Tua to sit for a year, but that doesn't help their defense.

My guess is the Lions are targeting Okudah or Simmons with that first pick, and one or both of them will still be available at 5 - plus they'll get extra picks from the Phins that they can use to further build the D and OL.

by mercury22nathan Fri Feb 21, 2020 8:59 am

If Tua Tagovailoa had his choice, he’d go from playing for one of the most iconic brands in college football to playing for one of the most iconic brands in the NFL.

In an interview with the NFL Network, Tagovailoa said he grew up a fan of the Dallas Cowboys and his ideal circumstance would include being drafted by the team in the April.

“We’ve looked at teams,” Tagovailoa said. “We’ve talked about teams. We’ve talked to teams. Somebody might trade up and you could possibly drop or you could possibly go higher. We’ve been talking about all those scenarios.

“If you’re saying to me, if I can choose what team I want to play on, as far as my favorite team growing up, then I probably tell you the Cowboys.”

Of course, the Cowboys aren’t exactly in need of drafting a quarterback with Dak Prescott in the picture and Tagovailoa acknowledged that Dallas is far down the draft order as well in holding the 17th overall pick.

“I’m not trying to bump him. I’ll learn under him,” Tagovailoa said of Prescott. “I’d handle it the way that the coaches there want to handle it. Honestly, I just want to be able play again. I wouldn’t mind learning under whatever guy that’s the starter. Give me a whole year to rest up and then go back out and compete, but I just want to go back out and play.”

https://sports.yahoo.com/tua-tagovailoa-choose-play-cowboys-060925332.html

i get it, a lot of players were probably fans of certain teams growing up. but why would you even say something like this now? its one thing to say, "i was a Cowboys fan as a kid, but i'm excited to be playing for anybody in the NFL." but no, he went on about analyzing and talking to different teams and even his willingness to sit behind Dak. what the heck? this just wasn't a necessary conversation.

it also makes me wonder if the latest information he has makes him think he's going to fall into the teens where the Cowboys might have a shot at him.

by rightchea Fri Feb 21, 2020 9:11 am

I can see how he would be excited to play for the Cowboys but at the same time the Cowboys have no draft capital to go after him.

by **JMP** Fri Feb 21, 2020 12:43 pm

mercury22nathan wrote:
If Tua Tagovailoa had his choice, he’d go from playing for one of the most iconic brands in college football to playing for one of the most iconic brands in the NFL.

In an interview with the NFL Network, Tagovailoa said he grew up a fan of the Dallas Cowboys and his ideal circumstance would include being drafted by the team in the April.

“We’ve looked at teams,” Tagovailoa said. “We’ve talked about teams. We’ve talked to teams. Somebody might trade up and you could possibly drop or you could possibly go higher. We’ve been talking about all those scenarios.

“If you’re saying to me, if I can choose what team I want to play on, as far as my favorite team growing up, then I probably tell you the Cowboys.”

Of course, the Cowboys aren’t exactly in need of drafting a quarterback with Dak Prescott in the picture and Tagovailoa acknowledged that Dallas is far down the draft order as well in holding the 17th overall pick.

“I’m not trying to bump him. I’ll learn under him,” Tagovailoa said of Prescott. “I’d handle it the way that the coaches there want to handle it. Honestly, I just want to be able play again. I wouldn’t mind learning under whatever guy that’s the starter. Give me a whole year to rest up and then go back out and compete, but I just want to go back out and play.”

https://sports.yahoo.com/tua-tagovailoa-choose-play-cowboys-060925332.html

i get it, a lot of players were probably fans of certain teams growing up. but why would you even say something like this now? its one thing to say, "i was a Cowboys fan as a kid, but i'm excited to be playing for anybody in the NFL." but no, he went on about analyzing and talking to different teams and even his willingness to sit behind Dak. what the heck? this just wasn't a necessary conversation.

it also makes me wonder if the latest information he has makes him think he's going to fall into the teens where the Cowboys might have a shot at him.

I'm not reading anything into this at all. He grew up as a Cowboys fan, and he'd like to be a Cowboy. This is a non-issue for me.

by **JMP** Fri Feb 21, 2020 12:45 pm

Oh, and no way Tua is falling to the teens. If the injury seems fine he's a top 5 pick guaranteed. He would have stayed at Alabama if he thought he was dropping to the teens.

by rightchea Sun Feb 23, 2020 8:21 pm

only way that is happening is if Tua looks horrible at the combine and pro day.

by **JMP** Mon Feb 24, 2020 10:21 am

For what it's worth, at the Combine Tua measured in at 6', 217 lbs. with hands just about 10".

That's a little bit shorter than Brees, a little bit taller than Wilson, and heavier than both - compared to their combine measurements back in the day. Tua's hands are slightly smaller than both...they were each about 10.25".

by rightchea Tue Feb 25, 2020 8:25 am

this is a good video about Tua and his injures

the one thing I think is correct and should worry about is you only played two years and been injured 3 times at Alabama. Now the only serious injury is his hip but how durable is he

by **JMP** Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:25 am

rightchea wrote:this is a good video about Tua and his injures

the one thing I think is correct and should worry about is you only played two years and been injured 3 times at Alabama. Now the only serious injury is his hip but how durable is he

All QBs have minor injuries, not just Tua. Burrow broke his hand, Herbert broke his collarbone, and Tua had hand and ankle injuries. It's part of the game. Not everyone is Eli Manning or Brett Favre.

The ONLY injury that matters for Tua is the hip, and by all accounts *so far* it is healed and he will be fine moving forward. Durability hasn't been an issue till the hip.

by **JMP** Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:00 pm

HOLY SHIT....IT'S ON!!!!

Alain Poupart
@apoupartFins
.⁦@Tuaamann
⁩ says he expects full clearance by March 9 and expects to be able do everything in OTAs.

Alain Poupart

@apoupartFins
.@Tuaamann
says his doctors have told him he should be exactly as before once the healing process is complete.

So I guess this means Tua could be on track to start from day 1???? Shocked

This changes everything. Now the Phins MUST trade up to 2. The Bengals may take Tua at 1 after all, so if we are at 2 we get Tua or Burrow. MAKE IT HAPPEN, GRIER!!!!

by rightchea Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:42 pm

Doesn't sound like him nor his agent want to play year 1. Both want him to sit out for one year. No matter how many medical professionals say it, he still wanting to come in when he is really ready.

by **JMP** Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:51 pm

rightchea wrote:Doesn't sound like him nor his agent want to play year 1. Both want him to sit out for one year. No matter how many medical professionals say it, he still wanting to come in when he is really ready.

The point is, he's getting full medical clearance and can practice starting in the OTAs...which means the injury is now a non-issue. Again, this changes everything. He's now fully in the mix for the #1 pick and there's no way he makes it passed 3 and probably not 2.

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