Draft thoughts not worth the virtual paper they're on

DolFan 316 wrote:I'd still hold off, address one of the MANY other needs instead, and just get Fabian Lovett later on. But maybe that's just me.

I'm telling you right now, wherever Sweat lands he's going to have weight and conditioning issues. This guy couldn't play every down or even most downs if he or the team wanted him to.

A guy like Sweat is really only going to appeal to certain teams. Not every defense wants/needs that type of nose tackle, and they really are becoming a dying breed. But if you need one, Sweat is the man. Lovett's just not the same player...there's probably a 30+ pound difference! LOL

And yes, you always have to keep an eye on conditioning with those ginormous OL/DL players. 340 can become 400 REAL quick for those guys!

JMP wrote:UNC LB Cedric Gray put on a show - made plays against the run and in the passing game.  Could be a nice later-round sleeper.

In every mock draft I do, Edgerrin Cooper is always rated way above Gray, and I just don't get it. Even if Cooper really is better, is he THAT much better? I say no. But because of this I always end up missing out on Gray due to him being taken in that Grand Canyon-sized gap between pick 55 and whenever the Fins' 3rd pick is.

No, I meant 2 lbs... he needs to eat one less biscuit that morning before weigh in!!!



Sweat is a big guy but I think he has fairly nimble feet. I would prefer Murphy for sure. The big drawback on Sweat (other than the weight issue that is...) seems to be he only has one move: the bull rush!

As for Hall... I think the Phins need to upgrade their D Line rotation. Hopefully, Wilkins is re-signed and THEN they draft a DT who can spell the starters without there being a substantial drop off.

But, yeah... it's a long, Long, LONG Way from #55 to #156!!!

I should also point out that Miami safety-turned-linebacker James Williams played a helluva game. He looks like a guy that can contribute right away, but he'll get better and better as he gets bigger and stronger. Good instincts and sure tackler.

Final thought: if I'm the Dolphins, I'm finding a way to draft FSU DL Braden Fiske. He really looks like the next Maxx Crosby to me. He dominates and never slows down.

Yeah, Fiske has a high motor. You gotta like that.

After comparing some guys at DT though, I am coming back to my initial thought: LSU's Mason Smith might be the best value pick.

I would take Byron Murphy in the 1st if I could not trade down, but in the 2nd, unless one of the top EDGE guys has slid down, I would look at Smith.

6'6" 315lbs and he is nimble (short area quickness Scouts like to say nowadays) and runs a 4.8 forty!! And the best part of it IMHO...he still has lots of room before he reaches his ceiling.

After the combine, Smith should be rated higher than he is now IMO.

Mason Smith is definitely intriguing. His lack of experience scares me (one year starter, played in just 20 games over 3 seasons). But the body type and athleticism are off the charts.

Yeah, and he had a major knee injury in college too.

We'll just have to see what Grier comes up with.

Whoever it is, needs to make a major (positive) IMPACT for the team!!

finfanatic wrote:Yeah, and he had a major knee injury in college too.

We'll just have to see what Grier comes up with.

Whoever it is, needs to make a major (positive) IMPACT for the team!!

Yep, IMPACT needs to be the keyword this entire offseason!

Some players that stood out during the East-West Shrine Game:

RB Frank Gore Jr. (offensive MVP) - not the fastest guy in the world, but I think he's got the tools to be a really good NFL back. Hits the hole quick and makes defenders miss.

CB Jarius Monroe (defensive MVP) - small-school (Tulane) corner had an excellent INT during the game that highlighted his ability to diagnose a play. During his post-game interview, he came across as very intelligent and very coachable. He talked about how he took what he learned in the classroom sessions and translated it to the field. Very impressive kid.

CB Qwan'tez Stiggers - played in the CFL, where he won the Most Outstanding Rookie award. He's got a pretty amazing (and sad) backstory - see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qwan%27tez_Stiggers. He's overcome a lot and looks like he has some skills.

CB Ja'Quan Sheppard also looked good in coverage.

The Murphy twins (Gabriel and Grayson), edge rushers from UCLA, both looked good in the game. Fast and very active.

QB Taulia Tagovailoa had a very good game. He's got some swagger to him and he runs the RPO to perfection. His height could make him undraftable, but then again if Bryce Young can go #1 overall anything is possible! Honestly, if he goes undrafted he'd be an ideal fit in the McDaniel offense.

BTW, all of the above players were on the West team. It seemed to me that the East team was poorly coached and I didn't really notice any standout players. Unfortunately, Leonard Taylor and Edgerrin Cooper did not play.

JMP wrote:The Murphy twins (Gabriel and Grayson), edge rushers from UCLA, both looked good in the game. Fast and very active.

Yeah, what is odd is that on one of the mock drafts sites, Gabriel is rated much higher than Grayson??

We shall see what we see, but I have been looking at EDGE that Miami could get at #156 and below and I am starting to like this Cedric Johnson from Ole Miss. I have been looking hard at Kneeland from West. Mich too. And even lower down, Nelson Ceaser from Houston.

We'll have to see how free agency goes, but if CHubb and Phillips are going to be limited early on in the season, or playing back into shape, the Phins may HAVE TO go for an Edge player early??

I am thinking if they go that route, maybe Darius Robinson or Trice? Heck, maybe Chop Robinson falls to #21?

Maybe DF316 is correct in thinking the Phins should get 10-11 picks in THIS DRAFT??!!??

Wait a minute!!! Did I just post that DF316 may be correct???

finfanatic wrote:

JMP wrote:The Murphy twins (Gabriel and Grayson), edge rushers from UCLA, both looked good in the game. Fast and very active.

Yeah, what is odd is that on one of the mock drafts sites, Gabriel is rated much higher than Grayson??

We shall see what we see, but I have been looking at EDGE that Miami could get at #156 and below and I am starting to like this Cedric Johnson from Ole Miss. I have been looking hard at Kneeland from West. Mich too.   And even lower down, Nelson Ceaser from Houston.

We'll have to see how free agency goes, but if CHubb and Phillips are going to be limited early on in the season, or playing back into shape, the Phins may HAVE TO go for an Edge player early??

Keep in mind any new edge rushers will NEED to start right away. No time or luxury for developing or learning on the job. That's not to say they can't double up (IMO it would be prudent) with the second pick being a depth piece but the first pick at edge CANNOT be lower than 155.

I am thinking if they go that route, maybe Darius Robinson or Trice? Heck, maybe Chop Robinson falls to #21?

There are so many projected first round/early second round edge rushers that one of them is guaranted to fall to 21, which makes the position even MORE attractive as the first pick. I'd even look at Brandon Dorius. About the same size and skillset as Trice, and either of them would be the perfect replacement for Ogbah who we all know is a goner.

Maybe DF316 is correct in thinking the Phins should get 10-11 picks in THIS DRAFT??!!??

Wait a minute!!! Did I just post that DF316 may be correct???

At this point I just sit back and wait, knowing it's only a matter of time before the rest of you come to your senses and see my way of thinking

finfanatic wrote:

JMP wrote:The Murphy twins (Gabriel and Grayson), edge rushers from UCLA, both looked good in the game. Fast and very active.

Yeah, what is odd is that on one of the mock drafts sites, Gabriel is rated much higher than Grayson??

Not only are the Murphys identical twins and the same exact size, they also had some very similar stats: both ended up with almost the same number of tackles for loss (Gabriel 37, Grayson 36.5), the same number of sacks (21.5 each), and the same number of forced fumbles (4 each). Weird.

I really don't know how you'd rank one above the other, but then again I haven't done any digging on them.

If the Phins can re-sign AVG, that would certainly help with edge rusher. We'd still need one, but that's better than needing two! I suspect AVG will be cheaper than many people expect, but you never know if one of these teams with a lot of cap room will decide to overpay him.

JMP wrote:

finfanatic wrote:

JMP wrote:The Murphy twins (Gabriel and Grayson), edge rushers from UCLA, both looked good in the game. Fast and very active.

Yeah, what is odd is that on one of the mock drafts sites, Gabriel is rated much higher than Grayson??

Not only are the Murphys identical twins and the same exact size, they also had some very similar stats: both ended up with almost the same number of tackles for loss (Gabriel 37, Grayson 36.5), the same number of sacks (21.5 each), and the same number of forced fumbles (4 each).  Weird.

I really don't know how you'd rank one above the other, but then again I haven't done any digging on them.

here is the current combine invitee list:

https://www.nfl.com/news/full-list-of-prospects-invited-to-2024-nfl-scouting-combine

Gabriel was invited. Grayson was not.

of course, plenty of guys who do not get invited get drafted every year, but clearly the NFL (supposed) talent evaluators see a disparate difference between the two.

JMP wrote:QB Taulia Tagovailoa had a very good game.

Taulia didn't get invited either.

mercury22nathan wrote:

JMP wrote:

finfanatic wrote:

JMP wrote:The Murphy twins (Gabriel and Grayson), edge rushers from UCLA, both looked good in the game. Fast and very active.

Yeah, what is odd is that on one of the mock drafts sites, Gabriel is rated much higher than Grayson??

Not only are the Murphys identical twins and the same exact size, they also had some very similar stats: both ended up with almost the same number of tackles for loss (Gabriel 37, Grayson 36.5), the same number of sacks (21.5 each), and the same number of forced fumbles (4 each).  Weird.

I really don't know how you'd rank one above the other, but then again I haven't done any digging on them.

here is the current combine invitee list:

https://www.nfl.com/news/full-list-of-prospects-invited-to-2024-nfl-scouting-combine

Gabriel was invited.  Grayson was not.

of course, plenty of guys who do not get invited get drafted every year, but clearly the NFL (supposed) talent evaluators see a disparate difference between the two.

JMP wrote:QB Taulia Tagovailoa had a very good game.

Taulia didn't get invited either.

I really don't understand how one Murphy twin would get an invite but not the other...really strange!

Watching the other QBs that played in the East-West and the Senior Bowl, I'd say that Taulia definitely deserved an invite. He's better than some of the guys that got invited to the Combine - most notably Sam Hartman, who absolutely sucks. Taulia probably goes undrafted anyway, but he's got more upside than a lot of these QBs.

Another way of Disrespect toward TUA, Don't Invite Brother to Combine.

Well, this one sort of worked out well IMO at least.

This draft will probably look idiotic after the team's free agency moves, but right now, I like it...

25 Laiatu Latu EDGE - GB moved up and took an Olineman. Jayden Daniels is sitting right there!! I might just take Daniels if I was the Phins!! But Jayden goes to the Cowboys who are tired of paying Dak like he is a SB winning QB it seems.

55 Zach Frazier OC - Grier probably would not use a high pick for a OC IMO. But I would.

88 Braden Fiske DT - McKinley Jackson is sitting there and I went with Fiske instead because JMP says Fiske is the next Max Crosby!! So if this picks turns out to be so-so and Jackson is a star, we can blame JMP!!!

157 Matt Goncalves OT - I am usually looking for Javon Foster here, but he seems to be rising on the boards. This guy could be a sleeper pick maybe.

186 Sataoa Laumea IOL - Can play Tackle, Center or Guard. This is the third pick I have used on Oline, did you notice Grier?!!

200 Ty'Ron Hopper LB - This pick makes Weaver happy IMO. Hopper was really good behind Mizzous D Line this year.

239 Dwight McGlothern CB - I like McGlothern but could have gone for FSU's Jarrian Jones here as well. It's a 7th round pick! Who knows?

243 Jordan Jefferson DT - This is another pick that makes Weaver happy IMO. I cannot believe Jefferson is dropping like this. But the Phins will appreciate him in a backup rotational use as a rookie IMO.

I usually look for safety Tykee Smith, Malik Mustapha or Evan Williams but they were all gone at the picks I wanted to draft them so...

NO TE, no RB, and no WR.

KILLER draft, FF! Wow!

I'll take the heat for Fiske...I'm very high on him.

Jordan Jefferson at 243 seems impossible - but that would be THE steal of the draft.

just posting this for DF316's benefit (insert evil laughter).

5 cornerbacks the Dolphins could consider with pick No. 21

Cornerback is one position that can’t get enough depth. They’ll always be highly sought after in the first round no matter the quality of a particular class. This class, in particular, doesn’t have a surefire top-10 selection like Jalen Ramsey or Sauce Gardner, but there are certainly five to 10 guys who could make a case for going in the first round.

Here are five cornerbacks who the Dolphins should consider selecting if they decide to go that route...

https://dolphinswire.usatoday.com/lists/dolphins-2024-draft-first-round-cornerback-prospects/

and you'll have to read the article to learn the 5.

I am having a really hard time seeing Grier going for a CB, but who knows? If he is the BPA and that highly rated above everyone else, maybe? But I think it would be a huge red flag/signal that Cam Smith stinks like desert donkey balls!!!

Yeah, it seems the consensus pick is Oline. Most of the mocks (from people who know about as much as I know I will admit!! ) have the Phins going Oline, and then either CB, and WR it seems.

If free agency pans out like I think.... I do not see how DT or EDGE is not the biggest need and there SHOULD BE a DT or an EDGE there ready for the taking IMO.

If...IF it works out like I am thinking...it's still very early... the Phins might have a choice between a couple of quality EDGE guys as well.

Who knows? Grier might trade the #1 and a few dozen other picks for a Player who has to be paid big bucks next year!





I did hear a (unsubstantiated) rumor that Weaver has let it be known that if Khalil Mack hits free agency, he would be very interested in him? I think I would rather look at Bosa, but... I am an internet football expert...so...

mercury22nathan wrote:just posting this for DF316's benefit (insert evil laughter).  

5 cornerbacks the Dolphins could consider with pick No. 21

Cornerback is one position that can’t get enough depth. They’ll always be highly sought after in the first round no matter the quality of a particular class. This class, in particular, doesn’t have a surefire top-10 selection like Jalen Ramsey or Sauce Gardner, but there are certainly five to 10 guys who could make a case for going in the first round.

Here are five cornerbacks who the Dolphins should consider selecting if they decide to go that route...

https://dolphinswire.usatoday.com/lists/dolphins-2024-draft-first-round-cornerback-prospects/

and you'll have to read the article to learn the 5.

Good article. Cooper DeJean intrigues me...I love the size and his ability to play multiple positions. That could be intriguing for a coach like Weaver who is not wedded to one particular scheme.

finfanatic wrote:I am having a really hard time seeing Grier going for a CB, but who knows? If he is the BPA and that highly rated above everyone else, maybe? But I think it would be a huge red flag/signal that Cam Smith stinks like desert donkey balls!!!

Yeah, it seems the consensus pick is Oline. Most of the mocks (from people who know about as much as I know I will admit!! ) have the Phins going Oline, and then either CB, and WR it seems.

If free agency pans out like I think.... I do not see how DT or EDGE is not the biggest need and there SHOULD BE a DT or an EDGE there ready for the taking IMO.

If...IF it works out like I am thinking...it's still very early... the Phins might have a choice between a couple of quality EDGE guys as well.

Who knows? Grier might trade the #1 and a few dozen other picks for a Player who has to be paid big bucks next year!





I did hear a (unsubstantiated) rumor that Weaver has let it be known that if Khalil Mack hits free agency, he would be very interested in him?  I think I would rather look at Bosa, but... I am an internet football expert...so...  

I doubt we could afford Khalil Mack - most likely we'll be targeting lower-tier players on short-term deals. But you never know.

As for the draft, I think our first pick comes from one of these positions: edge rusher, CB, WR, OL. I think edge rusher might be the least likely of the 4, but only because the top guys will probably be gone before 21.

You could probably throw DT in the mix as well, but I think it is unlikely as I expect Wilkins to be back. But even if he walks, I think we can get a quality DT later in the draft - and Weaver has had success with later-round DTs like Madubuike (3rd round) and Michael Pierce (undrafted).

JMP wrote:Yeah, that's why I think trading down from 21 is a good move - depending on who is there.  I really, really think we need a 3rd rounder in this draft - I expect a lot of good players to be available there.

posting this as it gives credence to JMP's thought of trading down.

When it comes to the 2024 NFL draft, this is a group of very talented prospects. This group has an elite top tier and a massive second tier or prospects which means the difference between pick No. 25 and pick No. 50 isn’t going to be that different.

The NFL scouting combine is almost upon us and that along with plenty of film study means we will continue to make adjustments to our player grades but as of now, Curt Popejoy has 20 players with first-round grades. For reference, more than 40 players have a second-round grade.

https://draftwire.usatoday.com/lists/2024-nfl-draft-caleb-williams-drake-maye-jayden-daniels/

so of course there are only 20 guys worth a 1st round pick - cause you know, Miami picks 21st. (PS - it lists the 20 players)

but in essence what this is saying is that you could stay at 21 and get one good player - or trade back and in all likelihood get 2 players of very nearly equal quality.

Agree, value is a big part of the draft if you're not getting a difference maker at 21, trade down IF you can find a partner to do it...

Is it just me, or do the Big Three QBs in Merc's link all look like frail, puny wimps and weenies?

Compared to them, Tua looks like a superhero! Or me on a good day

Also, what's with this "Johnny" Newton business? Jer'Zhan just sounds so much cooler.

This guy's absolutely right, though. In any given year there are really only around 25-30 players worth drafting at all, maybe a round and a half's worth in a good draft.