BREAKING NEWS: Fangio is OUT as Dolphins DC

DolFan 316 wrote:So now I'm being told some players are HAPPY about this

Of course some players are happy - and some players are upset. No different than any other coach that gets fired. That's how it goes.

JMP wrote:

finskev wrote:Florio from PFT says the Fins let Fangio out of His Contract so He could be Closer to Home.  

So he just used the Dolphins to get a quick money grab while he waited for the Eagles job to open.  

or... the Dolphins went ahead and gave him a big money deal full well knowing he'd rather be in Philly.

he was pretty open from the very beginning that he was only taking the Miami job cause the Gannon to Arizona thing happened to late. all this came out in June.

https://www.si.com/nfl/eagles/news/philadelphia-eagles-vic-fangio-jonathan-gannon-arizona-cardinals-tampering-miami-dolphins

Miami was so infatuated with getting the HOT coordinator they completely ignored the truth. they should have moved on and hired someone who was in it for the long haul. but just like Miami does with players - always looking for the free agent fixes over developing draft picks - they to a chance with the popular temporary fix with Fangio.

mercury22nathan wrote:

JMP wrote:

finskev wrote:Florio from PFT says the Fins let Fangio out of His Contract so He could be Closer to Home.  

So he just used the Dolphins to get a quick money grab while he waited for the Eagles job to open.  

or...  the Dolphins went ahead and gave him a big money deal full well knowing he'd rather be in Philly.

he was pretty open from the very beginning that he was only taking the Miami job cause the Gannon to Arizona thing happened to late.  all this came out in June.

https://www.si.com/nfl/eagles/news/philadelphia-eagles-vic-fangio-jonathan-gannon-arizona-cardinals-tampering-miami-dolphins

Miami was so infatuated with getting the HOT coordinator they completely ignored the truth.  they should have moved on and hired someone who was in it for the long haul.  but just like Miami does with players - always looking for the free agent fixes over developing draft picks - they to a chance with the popular temporary fix with Fangio.

Sure, but in a season where they saw themselves as legit contenders, I see absolutely nothing wrong with bringing in a top-level coach, even if they knew it was just for the one season. The problem was, Fangio wasn't all-in with the Dolphins - he coached like he didn't really care, and he alienated some players in the process. The Dolphins absolutely did not get the version of Vic Fangio that they expected to get.

DolFan 316 wrote:Say what you want about Fangio, but from the 8th game to the 15th the Fins allowed fewer points than any other team. That's nearly half the season. The system just needed some time for the players to adjust and then it sure did seem like it was working to me. Only when half the starters got hurt did we see slippage, and even then this D held the Chiefs to fewer points and TDs on the road than the mighty Bills did at home.

https://stathead.com/tiny/7qeni

Even going back to the 4th game the D is still #4 in points allowed during that stretch.

https://stathead.com/tiny/2hCLd

This is gong to be a far bigger loss than people realize. Just look at this thread and how nobody has any idea who will replace Fangio and is just tossing out random names. And if you don't think this will affect Wilkins and other impending FAs and make them want to leave then IDK what to tell you. This pretty much seals the '24 team's fate when THIS season's not even officially over yet.  

i'm gonna agree with DF here. i think this will hurt more than people realize. but truth is, if the guy didn't want to be in Miami, forcing him to stay under contract was just gonna make it worse. they had no choice but to move on... and perhaps they should have never been in this position to begin with had they faced the truth from the beginning.

DF, do me a favor- - keep a list of folks who are happy to see Fangio go (cause you know, "the defense sucked") and see how many of those same folks are bemoaning Miami's failure of a defense while admiring Philly's defensive "toughness" next year.

I don't have a good feeling about this.  The Fangio defense is proven... GM Chris Grier is not and neither is McDaniel.

Makes me think the problem on defense is TALENT.  Both Sieler and Wilkins increased their sack numbers this season and I think we ranked really high in sacks, especially after Ramsey came back.  Phillips was having a great season too before he got hurt.  

Holland did not pan out like I thought he would, and we seemed to suffer quite a few breakdowns in coverage - which makes me wonder about our passing game coordinator (the guy we stole from the Chargers).  

On the other side of the coin, Van Ginkel was identified by Fangio and talked into signing back with the team while Grier and McDaniel had decided he was expendable.  All he did was make plays and prove a valuable backup when injuries occurred at OLB.  

In any case, I can't see this as anything other than a step down on defense, and that's not a good thing.

A veteran DC would be my preference, and yes Wink fits that bill.  Staley? His defense (and he was calling plays) with the Chargers, who have a good amount of talent on that side of the ball, gives me serious pause...

JMP wrote:Sure, but in a season where they saw themselves as legit contenders, I see absolutely nothing wrong with bringing in a top-level coach, even if they knew it was just for the one season.  The problem was, Fangio wasn't all-in with the Dolphins - he coached like he didn't really care, and he alienated some players in the process.  The Dolphins absolutely did not get the version of Vic Fangio that they expected to get.

i absolutely agree with everything you said here.

but the problem is... "they saw themselves as legit contenders" and we now know that couldn't have been farther from the truth. despite all the gawdy stats and choreographed endzone celebrations, when it came down to competing with good team, they just weren't contenders at all.

instead of going for the all-in (as they continue to do with high priced FA), they should have been looking to build stability beyond just one year.

and you're absolutely right, Fangio probably wasn't all in (since June) - and Miami should've known it or did know it and chose to look the other way.

DolFan 316 wrote: Just look at this thread and how nobody has any idea who will replace Fangio and is just tossing out random names.  

What else are we supposed to do??? We have no idea who the Phins are looking at!

Realistically, I think Anthony Campanile has the inside track - unless the Giants offer him their DC job and he wants to go back to Jersey.

Ejiro Evero would be high on my list. He's a young, ascending coach and people speak VERY highly of him. He does run a 3-4 base, so we'd need a true NT, but we needed that anyway. The downside is, Evero will get head coaching consideration every offseason (and may even get a HC job this round.)

mercury22nathan wrote:i'm gonna agree with DF here.  i think this will hurt more than people realize.  but truth is, if the guy didn't want to be in Miami, forcing him to stay under contract was just gonna make it worse.  they had no choice but to move on...  and perhaps they should have never been in this position to begin with had they faced the truth from the beginning.

I got as far as the first sentence before I blacked out from the shock of someone actually agreeing with me right away as opposed to weeks or months later when it turns out I was right the entire time. Not that I would ever gloat about it of course. The GF had to splash cold water on my face, but I didn't hit my head on anything so I think I'm okay now.

DF, do me a favor- - keep a list of folks who are happy to see Fangio go (cause you know, "the defense sucked") and see how many of those same folks are bemoaning Miami's failure of a defense while admiring Philly's defensive "toughness" next year.

(Rubs hands together gleefully.) That I can do, Merc. That I can do. MUAHAHAHAHA!!!

about all of this Fangio is headed to Philly cause his family is there... some folks are starting to put two and two together and say that's just a lie for him to get out of Miami.

supposedly Fangio saw Miami as a one shot this year and doesn't think the team (with McD's gadget offense, Tua's limitations and poor talent acquisition) is going anywhere anytime soon.

so where is he headed? Chargers to reunite with Harbaugh.

this isn't me saying it, but the rumors are out there. something to keep an eye on.

Say what you want about Fangio, but from the 8th game to the 15th the Fins allowed fewer points than any other team. That's nearly half the season. The system just needed some time for the players to adjust and then it sure did seem like it was working to me. Only when half the starters got hurt did we see slippage, and even then this D held the Chiefs to fewer points and TDs on the road than the mighty Bills did at home.

https://stathead.com/tiny/7qeni

Even going back to the 4th game the D is still #4 in points allowed during that stretch.

https://stathead.com/tiny/2hCLd

This is gong to be a far bigger loss than people realize. Just look at this thread and how nobody has any idea who will replace Fangio and is just tossing out random names. And if you don't think this will affect Wilkins and other impending FAs and make them want to leave then IDK what to tell you. This pretty much seals the '24 team's fate when THIS season's not even officially over yet.

DF nailed it. Like I said, Fangio is a proven and respected defensive mind and the stats bear out his system WAS working.

The embarrassing losses to end the season were largely a result of our toothless, lethargic offense during those games, or the inevitable special teams breakdown or both.

It does go to show, if you have to arm twist that hard or pay an inordinate amount of money to land a coach (like we did with Fangio) they probably won't be sticking around for long.

Final thought: McDaniel is now on his third defensive coordinator. Remind you of anyone? I hope this isn't a bad sign but it may be...

mercury22nathan wrote:
i absolutely agree with everything you said here.

but the problem is...  "they saw themselves as legit contenders" and we now know that couldn't have been farther from the truth.  despite all the gawdy stats and choreographed endzone celebrations, when it came down to competing with good team, they just weren't contenders at all.

instead of going for the all-in (as they continue to do with high priced FA), they should have been looking to build stability beyond just one year.

Of course they were contenders - they scored almost 500 points on offense, led the East for much of the season, and had the same regular season record as everyone's favorite team - the Bills.  The end of the season sucked, but let's not pretend that the Dolphins were not one of the NFL's top teams almost all season.

Building coaching stability is great, but in today's game it is very rare. Coaches come and go every year.  For example, the Bills lost their DC in the offseason and then fired their OC in-season.

JMP wrote:The end of the season sucked, but let's not pretend that the Dolphins were not one of the NFL's top teams almost all season.

when they start handing out trophies for that, let me know.

sorry, couldn't resist.

about all of this Fangio is headed to Philly cause his family is there... some folks are starting to put two and two together and say that's just a lie for him to get out of Miami.

Well, PFT reporting Fangio to Philly is pending - he's on his way to sign the contract.

I predict Philly will have a top 10 defense in 2024. Let's see how it pans out.

white1 wrote:I don't have a good feeling about this.  The Fangio defense is proven... GM Chris Grier is not and neither is McDaniel.

Makes me think the problem on defense is TALENT.  Both Sieler and Wilkins increased their sack numbers this season and I think we ranked really high in sacks, especially after Ramsey came back.  Phillips was having a great season too before he got hurt.

The Fins were 3rd in sacks this season--four away from the first place Ravens. Makes me think they'd have topped the league if not for the leading four rushers getting hurt and all. This is after the Fangio influenced Eagles D led the league in sacks last season.

https://stathead.com/tiny/sXv3x

https://stathead.com/tiny/2gwdm

On the other side of the coin, Van Ginkel was identified by Fangio and talked into signing back with the team while Grier and McDaniel had decided he was expendable.  All he did was make plays and prove a valuable backup when injuries occurred at OLB.

The Fangio Flaying Mob (FFM) conveniently leaves that part out. Not that I blame them since it ruins their narrative that he didn't give a damn all season.   

In any case, I can't see this as anything other than a step down on defense, and that's not a good thing.

A veteran DC would be my preference, and yes Wink fits that bill. Staley? His defense (and he was calling plays) with the Chargers, who have a good amount of talent on that side of the ball, gives me serious pause...

Go back and read the Giants game/game thoughts threads where I give Martindale props. Seriously, that was a thing I did. Staley's NFL career seems to be over, no team is willing to bring him in to be the water boy at this point.

white1 wrote:DF nailed it.  Like I said, Fangio is a proven and respected defensive mind and the stats bear out his system WAS working.

The embarrassing losses to end the season were largely a result of our toothless, lethargic offense during those games, or the inevitable special teams breakdown or both.

It does go to show, if you have to arm twist that hard or pay an inordinate amount of money to land a coach (like we did with Fangio) they probably won't be sticking around for long.

Final thought:  McDaniel is now on his third defensive coordinator.  Remind you of anyone? I hope this isn't a bad sign but it may be...

(Reads first sentence, faints again.)

white1 wrote:Like I said, Fangio is a proven and respected defensive mind and the stats bear out his system WAS working.

The embarrassing losses to end the season were largely a result of our toothless, lethargic offense during those games, or the inevitable special teams breakdown or both.

"Proven and respected" doesn't mean "good". I fell for the Fangio mystique when he was hired, but the Dolphins were sold a bill of goods. The way this defense choked at the end of the season was an embarrassment - the total breakdown against the Titans, of all teams, and then the absolute ass-stomping that the Ravens delivered were proof that the 2023 Fangio did not live up to his reputation.

Again, some good things happened on defense this season - but in the end, it was a major fail. Hey, I admit - I got hoodwinked - I bought into the "genius" label. But all I saw was an aging, out-of-touch has-been that couldn't hang with the big boys and acted like he didn't want to be there. At least McDaniel is young and still learning - Fangio looked like he was ready to be put out to pasture. Good riddance.

mercury22nathan wrote:

JMP wrote:The end of the season sucked, but let's not pretend that the Dolphins were not one of the NFL's top teams almost all season.

when they start handing out trophies for that, let me know.

sorry, couldn't resist.

No one's asking for a trophy. The Dolphins were one of the league's top teams all season - until the bitter end. That's indisputable.

JMP wrote:Hey, I admit - I got hoodwinked - I bought into the "genius" label.  But all I saw was an aging, out-of-touch has-been that couldn't hang with the big boys and acted like he didn't want to be there.  At least McDaniel is young and still learning - Fangio looked like he was ready to be put out to pasture.  Good riddance.

Is that why you kept predicting a win in every game from the Titans loss all the way through the playoff exit?

(Merc's not the only one who can't resist things.)

white1 wrote:

I predict Philly will have a top 10 defense in 2024.  Let's see how it pans out.

Fletcher Cox and Brandon Graham may retire, and they are extremely thin at LB and have a horrible secondary. They need a major rebuild on that side of the ball. I think it's more likely they end up bottom 10 than top 10 no matter who the DC is, but we'll see what they end up doing in free agency and the draft.

JMP wrote:The Dolphins were one of the league's top teams all season - until the bitter end.  That's indisputable.  

except for week 4...7...9....or any other time they faced a team with a winning record.

i get it. i was happy. we were ALL happy (well maybe not DF). but i'm pretty sure we all knew in the back of mind after those losses we knew something just wasn't quite right with this team. i kept telling myself, "hey, with a little luck and hope, anybody can win," but i honestly knew (and i think a lot of other too) this team wasn't making a Super Bowl run.

At least Fangio's sticking to his word and actually going back to Philly like he said instead of being a typical 2020s-style hypocrite and running to LA to be with Harbaugh. Yes Jmp, that thought had crossed my mind as well. Even I, 316, would've lost all respect for him if he'd done that!

DolFan 316 wrote:This is after the Fangio influenced Eagles D led the league in sacks last season.

As I understand it, Fangio consulted with the Eagles offense late in the season in 2022, to help them gameplan against opposing defenses. He was not responsible for the Eagles defense.

As for Van Ginkel, he was already a Dolphin and had success with the team. Sure, he came back at Fangio's urging - and then put up very similar stats as he has throughout his career. It's not like Fangio came in and AVG all of a sudden became a good player.

mercury22nathan wrote:i get it. i was happy. we were ALL happy (well maybe not DF).

You ought to know by now, I'm not happy unless I'm NOT happy

But seriously, I was feeling as good as I have about this team in over 20 years before that damn Titans Traveshamockery. That's when I knew my season goal of a playoff win was not happening

mercury22nathan wrote:

JMP wrote:The Dolphins were one of the league's top teams all season - until the bitter end.  That's indisputable.  

except for week 4...7...9....or any other time they faced a team with a winning record.

And how did Fangio's defense do against good teams?

JMP wrote:As for Van Ginkel, he was already a Dolphin and had success with the team.  Sure, he came back at Fangio's urging - and then put up very similar stats as he has throughout his career.  It's not like Fangio came in and AVG all of a sudden became a good player.

Even if you're right, Fangio was the only one who saw him as more than just a role player and is responsible for him still being around, since Grier was about to kick AVG to the curb. Can you imagine what a disaster THAT would've been under the current circumstances? Holy guacamole!!!