Burrow or bust

Umix10 wrote:Too many things to consider right now with the way the College Football season has gone.  Injury to Tagavailoa,  the uncertainty of Young and the toss up at the top of the draft is way to volatile to be predictable.

Miami has a plan.  "The Plan", IMHO, is to fill this roster with above average to superstar talent through the draft.  Certainly, the fins and for sure us fans, want a QB.  At this point, "talent acquisition" should be plastered around the building. It doesn't matter what position, just get some talent in this building.  

I was enamored with Tua and Young. I've grown to like Burrow but think he could be a Tannehill waiting to happen in Miami if we don't get someone who can block.  

OL is the utmost importance.  DL no matter what position is a must.  QB can be done this year or next.  Etienne has to be considered in the late first or early 2nd.   I think The dream scenario for us is  to nab Tua in the 2nd and let him sit behind Fitz for a year.

You nailed it - we need talent at every position, so really just pick great players - position doesn't even matter. OL and DL are obviously the biggest needs, but no need to reach for specific positions when we need help everywhere.

Here's the deal with Tua: if he gets the green light on the hip, he's going top 5 - no doubt in my mind. Even with all the uncertainty, he's too good a prospect to fall beyond that - especially in a draft that is not deep at QB. And if he doesn't get the green light...I have no idea where he's going!

Burrow's arm strength/velocity scares me a bit, but otherwise he does look like the real deal. No way he gets passed the Bengals.

Jordan Love could be the most intriguing QB in this class. The marijuana arrest muddies the waters a bit, but speaking purely from skillset and talent, this guy has everything you want. He's extremely raw and probably needs to sit for a couple of years, but if he cleans up his act and lands in the right spot and the lights come on, he's going to make a lot of teams regret passing on him. He'll go higher than he should after postseason games and workouts, even with the arrest, and I don't see him getting out of round 2.

DolFan 316 wrote:Speaking of QBs getting arrested for marijuana...Jordan Love just managed it. I cannot make this stuff up.

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/28320632/qb-jordan-love-three-utah-state-players-cited-pot

But of course he's playing in the bowl game because that's how the world works. (That one was for you Scotgif )

Yeah, I heard about that. I was kind of intrigued with Love, but not now.

scotgif wrote:

DolFan 316 wrote:Speaking of QBs getting arrested for marijuana...Jordan Love just managed it. I cannot make this stuff up.

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/28320632/qb-jordan-love-three-utah-state-players-cited-pot

But of course he's playing in the bowl game because that's how the world works. (That one was for you Scotgif )

Yeah, I heard about that. I was kind of intrigued with Love, but not now.

From what I understand, Love wasn't arrested...just got a ticket for smoking pot. In this day and age, that's really not considered a big deal and I don't think it will have any impact on his draft status. Remember - Robert Nkemdiche was still drafted in the first after an incident with synthetic marijuana in college where he jumped out a window and was charged with possession, and Dion Jordan was drafted top 5 (UGH!!!) despite being a known pot smoker in college.

JMP wrote:

From what I understand, Love wasn't arrested...just got a ticket for smoking pot.  In this day and age, that's really not considered a big deal and I don't think it will have any impact on his draft status.  Remember - Robert Nkemdiche was still drafted in the first after an incident with synthetic marijuana in college where he jumped out a window and was charged with possession, and Dion Jordan was drafted top 5 (UGH!!!) despite being a known pot smoker in college.

Lets not forget Tunsil's gas mask......Because he set the precedence. Smoke pot and your out of the top 10. So you may get drafted at #11

D'oh! Completely forgot about gasmask Tunsil! But yes - I don't think teams are as turned off by pot smoking anymore.

What turns teams off of pot smokers isn't the weed part, it's the lack of wanting to adhere to a ruleset, regardless of the life-changing amount of money being dangled in their faces.  It's about not being able to commit, and putting themselves before the team.

People can do whatever they want within the law, and I personally don't find pot to be any kind of issue, but the NFL does.  I listened recently (Pat McAfee Show - well worth the time) to what a massive pain in the ass it is to actually be in the NFL substance program and how the NFL is not interested in EVER letting a player get out once they're in.  The quicker they just allow them to use marijuana the better, but that's going to take a 50-state referendum (or at least an all NFL one), and even then, I'm sure the NFL won't come around for a decade or two.

So, for right now, it's not so much the drugs, because the players have access to all kinds of legal stuff (lots of it lethal and highly addictive) that they get from their own team doctors.  It's about them not being able to control themselves to keep the team out of trouble, and to be there for the team.

So, you get nicked for weed, you're going to fall at least some in the draft due to "moral turpitude" issues.

Exactly!!! Alcohol is perfectly legal, but I would never draft a player who I knew was a habitual drunk. I'm not paying somebody millions to sit around getting high or drunk or stoned or whatever. How many tokers do you think the Pats have, or have ever had in the last 20 years?

All valid points, but these "offenders" are still being drafted at premium spots. Love was probably going in round 2-3 before this incident, and he's still likely going in round 2-3.

JMP wrote:All valid points, but these "offenders" are still being drafted at premium spots. Love was probably going in round 2-3 before this incident, and he's still likely going in round 2-3.

And it'll be a big mistake. One that I'd rather let some other team make.

It's been proven time and time again that only 1-2 QBs per draft wind up having NFL careers that can even remotely be defined as successful. In some drafts there are none. This one looks like Burrow and a bunch of bumblers, busts and bums. I'm sorry, but I just can't see Tua panning out. IMO he's the next Mariota. At this point I would even say forget QB and just concentrate on making the rest of the team better. They're drafting too low now to get a "splash" guy anyway so they might as well just get as many good players as they can out of it.

DolFan 316 wrote:

JMP wrote:All valid points, but these "offenders" are still being drafted at premium spots. Love was probably going in round 2-3 before this incident, and he's still likely going in round 2-3.

And it'll be a big mistake. One that I'd rather let some other team make.

It's been proven time and time again that only 1-2 QBs per draft wind up having NFL careers that can even remotely be defined as successful. In some drafts there are none. This one looks like Burrow and a bunch of bumblers, busts and bums. I'm sorry, but I just can't see Tua panning out. IMO he's the next Mariota. At this point I would even say forget QB and just concentrate on making the rest of the team better. They're drafting too low now to get a "splash" guy anyway so they might as well just get as many good players as they can out of it.

Yeah, I'm really on the fence with Jordan Love. I think he's just too raw and should stay in school another year, but his skills are insane and he will dominate the offseason workouts. I'd feel much more comfortable taking him in 2021.

Tua is better than Mariota ever was. Mariota was a running QB that played in a gimmicky college offense. Tua is a pocket passer that played in a (mostly) pro-style offense. In terms of accuracy, ball placement and leadership, I see Tua as much more Brees than Mariota. Who knows what Tua's injury status is, but if he is able to play he's truly a top prospect and the best QB to come along in years.

But yes, regardless of what we do at QB, the primary focus of this draft is improving the team as a whole.

If we're not in position to get an "IT" guy at QB, I'd focus heavily on OL and DL. Get the heart of both sides of the ball set up. It's a fantastic way to build a team, provided the one picking the players knows what the hell they're doing.

Jacob Eason joins Love in declaring.

JMP wrote:

scotgif wrote:

DolFan 316 wrote:Speaking of QBs getting arrested for marijuana...Jordan Love just managed it. I cannot make this stuff up.

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/28320632/qb-jordan-love-three-utah-state-players-cited-pot

But of course he's playing in the bowl game because that's how the world works. (That one was for you Scotgif )

Yeah, I heard about that. I was kind of intrigued with Love, but not now.

From what I understand, Love wasn't arrested...just got a ticket for smoking pot.  In this day and age, that's really not considered a big deal and I don't think it will have any impact on his draft status.  Remember - Robert Nkemdiche was still drafted in the first after an incident with synthetic marijuana in college where he jumped out a window and was charged with possession, and Dion Jordan was drafted top 5 (UGH!!!) despite being a known pot smoker in college.

In most cases, people don't get arrested unless they are acting ignorantly. if you are smoking pot and you just give it to them they normally just ticket you or they let you off with a warning.

Burrow just had one of the greatest games of all time

CarsonChris wrote:Burrow just had one of the greatest games of all time

I'm at the point now where I'm strongly advocating trading an entire draft to get him at #1. It's better than seeing Grier just blow all the extra picks anyway and there's no chance of this team getting Lawrence next season if they couldn't get the top pick this time. Otherwise there's literally no other QB I would even bother drafting.

EDIT: IN the 2012 draft the Skins traded up from #6 to #2 to get RGIII and also gave up their 2nd rounder in that same draft plus their first round pick the next two years. I would absolutely give that up for Burrow without a second thought. In the '16 draft the Eagles traded up from #8 to #2 for Wentz and also gave up their 3rd and 4th rounders in that same draft, their first for the next season and a 2018 2nd. Still totally worth it. Those are the two comparable trades I thought of just off the top of my head. I see no reason why Grier couldn't at least offer all three firsts in this next draft plus a first and/or 2nd next year for Burrow. The Bengals might not take it, but at least make the offer. Who else would he be taking with those picks anyway? Chances are two of the three firsts next year will be busts the way this team drafts.

Burrow played out of his mind all season, and then today he played...better. Holy shit, this guy is great. I was wrong about him, he's a stud.

The Bengals aren't trading that pick even if we offer our next 3 drafts.

JMP wrote:Burrow played out of his mind all season, and then today he played...better.  Holy shit, this guy is great.  I was wrong about him, he's a stud.

The Bengals aren't trading that pick even if we offer our next 3 drafts.

Grier needs to be fired if he doesn't at least make them an offer. If he makes an offer and they don't bite then hey, at least he tried. Literally anything is better than just sitting there watching Burrow get picked knowing this draft doesn't have any other QB with anywhere near his chances of NFL success.

DolFan 316 wrote:

JMP wrote:Burrow played out of his mind all season, and then today he played...better.  Holy shit, this guy is great.  I was wrong about him, he's a stud.

The Bengals aren't trading that pick even if we offer our next 3 drafts.

Grier needs to be fired if he doesn't at least make them an offer. If he makes an offer and they don't bite then hey, at least he tried. Literally anything is better than just sitting there watching Burrow get picked knowing this draft doesn't have any other QB with anywhere near his chances of NFL success.

I'm sure the Dolphins (and other teams) will talk to the Bengals, but there's no way they are giving up the #1.

After what Lawrence did against Ohio State,  not so sure if Burrow is a necessity for Miami right now.  

To get to the 1 spot would just be like all the past regimes.  I do not want to mortgage the future for the present.  We have to stay the course of long term thinking.  We have the most draft capital any team in this decade has had and that includes the Browns.  And look how the Browns turned out so far.  I'm scared of what will happen.  The Browns seem to be the end game if Miami doesnt play it right.  They were in this very same spot not so long ago when they took Mayfield.  They had a ton of money to splurge.  They used that money to get arguably the most sure handed receiver duo in the league (although not at the same time).  Yet they are just a few games ahead of the lowly patriot ass kickin' dolphins.  

stay the course!!!!!!!!!!

Umix10 wrote:After what Lawrence did against Ohio State,  not so sure if Burrow is a necessity for Miami right now.  

To get to the 1 spot would just be like all the past regimes.  I do not want to mortgage the future for the present.  We have to stay the course of long term thinking.  We have the most draft capital any team in this decade has had and that includes the Browns.  And look how the Browns turned out so far.  I'm scared of what will happen.  The Browns seem to be the end game if Miami doesnt play it right.  They were in this very same spot not so long ago when they took Mayfield.  They had a ton of money to splurge.  They used that money to get arguably the most sure handed receiver duo in the league (although not at the same time).  Yet they are just a few games ahead of the lowly patriot ass kickin' dolphins.  

stay the course!!!!!!!!!!

This is why Grier frightens me. It won't matter how great a coach Flores is (and he's sure checking all the boxes so far) if Grier doesn't put his big boy pants on and get a damn offseason right for once. And I don't want to see any more trading away of players this team literally just drafted a year or two ago, either!!! That part of the plan should be dead and buried.

white1 wrote:As much as I like Burrow...

The correct move imo is to draft Tua. Or, trade down and get more capital for 21 draft. We will improve so don’t plan to tank. 7/9 likely if we add just a couple pieces to an already solid squad

Every mock draft I see has the Chargers taking Tua. Which IMO would actually be doing this team a favor. Mark my words, he'll be too injury-prone to ever amount to anything in the NFL. #buildthelines

Dont know about Tua. Like the kid. He is humbled as is every other QB from Hawaii. Trust me. He is a good kid with some bad luck. I wouldn't count him out. If he stays healthy he has the talent and arm strength to be a great QB.

In all fairness, This years team overachieved. Next year they will underachieve. This will not be the same dolphins team next year. 20 or 30 players may not be here. The culture will change again. This years players were feisty, scrappy, and hungry. Next years will be a little more NFLish in that there will be a lot more egos on the field than this year. If we stay with the theme younger and hungry we may be able to keep the momentum. But having so much money in cap space may bring in some locker room horror stories

Umix10 wrote:
In all fairness, This years team overachieved.  Next year they will underachieve.  This will not be the same dolphins team next year.  20 or 30 players may not be here.  The culture will change again.  This years players were feisty, scrappy, and hungry.  Next years will be a little more NFLish in that there will be a lot more egos on the field than this year.  If we stay with the theme younger and hungry we may be able to keep the momentum.  But having so much money in cap space may bring in some locker room horror stories

Flores established a culture this year, and it's a culture of working hard, being accountable, displaying toughness and playing as a team. That culture isn't going away. Any new player in this locker room will get that message from day one, and if they don't buy in they won't be on the team for long. It's not about the individual players - it's about the team. Get used to it - this is the new Miami Dolphins. Check your ego at the door, or find a new job. It's just like the Patriots, Steelers, Ravens and Packers - the culture has been set, and each new player will know the expectations before they even walk in the door.

I should've known Flores would work out from the beginning. The dude just looks like a badass. Seriously. Would any of YOU want to fight him?