Re: UPDATE: McDaniel hired! [Thread for new head coach news and rumors]

by **JMP** Wed Jan 19, 2022 11:35 am

white1 wrote:Potential complication with Daboll.

Bills Assistant GM Schoen one of the favorites to get Giants GM job. Rumor has it Daboll going with him to be HC.

Makes sense. We'll see how it all plays out - so many teams and so many rumors!

by HalCHorn Wed Jan 19, 2022 11:49 am

Just not that sold on Daboll. Not that sold on a first time HC either this time. The last HC we hired with NFL HC experience was....ugh, Bumstedt.

by **JMP** Wed Jan 19, 2022 11:52 am

Cameron Wolfe

@CameronWolfe
Replying to @CameronWolfe

So to recap Dolphins 7 scheduled HC interviews..

— Bills OC Brian Daboll, Bills DC Leslie Frazier were Sunday.
— 49ers OC Mike McDaniel is today.
— Cowboys DC Dan Quinn, OC Kellen Moore will be tomorrow.
— Cardinals DC Vance Joseph & Rams AHC/RB coach Thomas Brown on Friday.

by **JMP** Wed Jan 19, 2022 11:54 am

HalCHorn wrote:Just not that sold on Daboll. Not that sold on a first time HC either this time. The last HC we hired with NFL HC experience was....ugh, Bumstedt.

That's the problem...just not a lot of great (or even just decent) experienced HCs available.

by JEGnj Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:21 pm

Honestly seeing what the Dolphins, Giants, and Jets have been through the last 10 years and the current crop of candidates I'm starting to wish Flores wasn't a prick with an ego problem because he was the best option.

by white1 Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:37 pm

Yeah, all the news and rumors not withstanding, Flores certainly has some strengths vs the other candidates.

If we are being honest and give him the benefit of the doubt, he's probably not wrong on Tua limitations, and certainly not wrong on trying to upgrade at the most important position on the field. He's not wrong on Grier missing with draft picks and free agents, either. Nor is he wrong in thinking Ross has shortcoming as an owner, who has proven that while trying he hasn't solved "how to win" in the NFL.

The one thing he did seem to do successfully is lead the team through adversity. No question. Many teams will spiral into a disaster following a 1-7 start, yet he held it together.

With all that said, there are some candidates that can certainly offer upside when compared to Flores. The trick is identifying and hiring the next Sean McVay. And NOT HIRING the next Gase or Philbin.

Quinn can probably hire the best staff based on his tenure in the league and experience with Atlanta and Dallas. For that reason I would identify him as the "safe" candidate. The team won't be a disaster under him. If he can bring the right coordinators you could become very good. If not, probably just average.

McDaniel is probably the face man for the "up and coming but not proven" candidates. Thomas Brown probably runs a close second here. The question for both: who runs your defense and can you hire that staff? Given their youth and lack of experience, and assumed lack of coaching network, these are high ceiling/low floor candidates. The team could be an outright disaster if all they bring is junior coaches with them.

Daboll... I'm waffling on him now. Apparently, he has an aggressive, frank and blunt personality which should make us think immediately of what just brought Flores down. Now, no two people are exactly alike but eerily, Daboll spent a lot of time in New England so draw your own conclusions.

I don't see much - if any - upside to Frazier or Moore. Both had good seasons with great support from the other side of the ball, and a very nice collection of talent on their end of the ball. I just don't see much "genius", or the hard work needed to turn around a struggling unit which is something you should be able to demonstrate to be a "hot" candidate.

Vance Joseph is.... interesting. His reputation since before joining us under Gase was as an outstanding leader. He's not your basic Xs and Os guy, in fact that's not his strength. You can argue there are games where he is solidly outcoached, especially in playoff games. If he can assemble the right coaching staff he could turn out to be an excellent head coach. In fact, he will probably be a better head coach than coordinator, as odd as that sounds. In any case, I'm intrigued.

by finfanatic Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:04 pm

Is there NO INTEREST in Pederson?

I know the whole tank thing looks bad, but I do think that was the Eagles Owner who is a putz it seems to me.

Tua NEEDS Pederson IMO.

Daboll could make Tua better for sure, but I am not sure Daboll is gonna be able to be a HC. I think HC is one step too many up the coaching hierarchy for him just like it was for Gase, Flores, Wannstedt and a huge number of other co-ordinators who got a shot and failed miserably.

For those of you looking at Flores and wishing he was still the head coach, remember, he had three years and the team STUNK IT UP to start the season in all Three seasons!!! That is all on the HC IMHO.

by **JMP** Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:10 pm

JEGnj wrote:Honestly seeing what the Dolphins, Giants, and Jets have been through the last 10 years and the current crop of candidates I'm starting to wish Flores wasn't a prick with an ego problem because he was the best option.

Yep, sure does suck that Flores ended up being a major problem. I know people in the media are trying to downplay the importance of "relationships", but really that is what it's all about. He sabotaged his QB, wasn't communicating with his coaching staff and wasn't working with his GM. That's 3 strikes - and 3 very important strikes at that.

And I know Flo gets a lot of credit for getting us out of big losing streaks, but he was also the head coach that got us into those losing streaks in the first place. As far as his on-field coaching is concerned, his teams consistently dug themselves into huge holes to start the season before they figured out how to win, his clock management and in-game decisions were terrible, and his teams got blown the fuck out in epic fashion every time they played a good team or got into a must-win situation. And of course, he blew up the offensive coaching staff every single season and this year loaded up on inexperienced coaches. Yes, we had two winning seasons in a row...but we were essentially treading water. I don't know if the 2022 season would have been any different, but the way things ended up in 2021 he had to go.

by Umix10 Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:11 pm

I really dont care who coaches this team as long as the guy motivates and inspires the team. As long as Grier gives the guy the right groceries, if you know what i'm saying.

I mentioned before that the HC position should be just that. The organizer of the team gameplans, but not the strategist. That's the coordinators job. I've always been of the mind that QB coaches should call the plays because thats the direct link to the huddle. But oh well.

So the guy I'm thinking of, but has a job, is Dan Campbell. He's not a strategist but he sure as hell motivates. He's not winning games but the Lions have a worse roster than we do. I remember when he brought back Oklahoma drills cuz he thought they were playing soft. I want someone like that. Its just up to him to bring in the right coordinator.

by CarsonChris Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:17 pm

Is Miami interviewing Doug Pederson?

by white1 Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:22 pm

Is there NO INTEREST in Pederson?

I know the whole tank thing looks bad, but I do think that was the Eagles Owner who is a putz it seems to me.

Tua NEEDS Pederson IMO.

Most disturbing thought I heard recently about Pederson, and possibly Caldwell. There is a non-zero chance the Fins reached out to them and got a "no thanks, not interested" in return.

This is the drawback to voicing the front office mandate "this is Tua's team". You have to realize that a head coach essentially lives and dies with his quarterback. If Pederson, Caldwell or any other candidate studied the tape and DOES NOT believe they can run their offense, or win, with Tua... well then they aren't going to be interested in the job, most likely.

I know Ross and Grier want to give Tua a vote of confidence. The timing for that vote of confidence is AFTER you hire the head coach. During the interview process, the team should be seeking opinions from each candidate on Tua and how he fits in their offense. Two reasons. One, it may prove out to not be a fit, and if the candidate pitches another quarterback instead you have to decide - is the candidate strong enough to move Tua or not? Second, if you get a nearly unanimous decision in 7 interviews AGAINST Tua, you have to consider if you have the right quarterback after all. Or you need to widen the pool of candidates.

The problem with declaring you are starting Tua up front is coaches that don't believe in him won't bother, knowing up front it's not a fit. You could be turning away Doug Pederson, who has his own QB in mind he wants to run the offense, and what if it's someone you could get much cheaper than Watson, Wilson or Rodgers?

by white1 Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:23 pm

Is Miami interviewing Doug Pederson?

At this point it's either the stealthiest interview ever, or he's simply not a candidate.

There's really no reason for stealth.... he's not on many lists and he's not employed, so no permission needed either.

by **JMP** Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:26 pm

white1 wrote:
If we are being honest and give him the benefit of the doubt, he's probably not wrong on Tua limitations, and certainly not wrong on trying to upgrade at the most important position on the field. He's not wrong on Grier missing with draft picks and free agents, either. Nor is he wrong in thinking Ross has shortcoming as an owner, who has proven that while trying he hasn't solved "how to win" in the NFL.

I think Flo was wrong on every one of those counts.
--"Tua's limitations" were a crappy OL and no running game. Limitations that were caused by Flo's negligence, ignorance and, probably, arrogance. And going full speed ahead pursuing a losing QB facing 20+ accusations of sexual assault that was never going to play in 2021, WHILE his young QB was trying to develop, was an absolute disaster and completely destroyed any shred of decency or credibility that Flo had. You want to upgrade at QB? Do it in the offseason - or do it behind closed doors if you can't wait. Instead, he undermined Tua at every turn and sabotaged the entire offense in the process.
--Grier gave Flo the players he wanted. Is it Grier's fault that Flo couldn't get anything out of the offensive draft picks and free agents (except Waddle) he had? Is it Grier's fault that the coaches Flo chose turned out to be incompetent, inept losers?
--It's not Flo's job to analyze Ross's performance. Ross gave Flo a 5-year contract and the latitude to build and coach the team he wanted. Flo has no cause to complain about Ross, in any way.

white1 wrote:
The one thing he did seem to do successfully is lead the team through adversity. No question. Many teams will spiral into a disaster following a 1-7 start, yet he held it together.

Ummm...we were 10-6 last season and followed that up by starting 1-7 the following season. Sure, ending up 9-8 after that is cool...but WE STARTED 1-7! Flo could have (and maybe should have) been fired for that alone. Completely unacceptable. And let's not forget: Flo the "defensive guru" had one of the worst defenses in the NFL during that 1-7 stretch.

The more I think about it, the more pissed off I get about Flores. I completely bought into his bullshit and supported him every step of the way, but he turned out to be a grade A loser piece of shit. In retrospect, I now see all the things I turned a blind eye to, and the bottom line is he was a pis poor head coach.

by **JMP** Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:54 pm

white1 wrote:
Is there NO INTEREST in Pederson?

I know the whole tank thing looks bad, but I do think that was the Eagles Owner who is a putz it seems to me.

Tua NEEDS Pederson IMO.

Most disturbing thought I heard recently about Pederson, and possibly Caldwell. There is a non-zero chance the Fins reached out to them and got a "no thanks, not interested" in return.

This is the drawback to voicing the front office mandate "this is Tua's team". You have to realize that a head coach essentially lives and dies with his quarterback. If Pederson, Caldwell or any other candidate studied the tape and DOES NOT believe they can run their offense, or win, with Tua... well then they aren't going to be interested in the job, most likely.

I know Ross and Grier want to give Tua a vote of confidence. The timing for that vote of confidence is AFTER you hire the head coach. During the interview process, the team should be seeking opinions from each candidate on Tua and how he fits in their offense. Two reasons. One, it may prove out to not be a fit, and if the candidate pitches another quarterback instead you have to decide - is the candidate strong enough to move Tua or not? Second, if you get a nearly unanimous decision in 7 interviews AGAINST Tua, you have to consider if you have the right quarterback after all. Or you need to widen the pool of candidates.

The problem with declaring you are starting Tua up front is coaches that don't believe in him won't bother, knowing up front it's not a fit. You could be turning away Doug Pederson, who has his own QB in mind he wants to run the offense, and what if it's someone you could get much cheaper than Watson, Wilson or Rodgers?

I doubt the Phins are interested in Pederson or Caldwell, for whatever reason. Thinking about it, Caldwell has been out of the NFL for years, and Pederson got fired in Philly for poor relationships and communication - like Flores did in Miami. With that in mind, there's a good chance neither coach is a fit for Miami.

In any case, the Tua-bashing has really gotten out of control. First of all, Ross is on record as saying the new coach will get to decide on a QB. Second of all, this notion that coaches hate Tua is, frankly, ridiculous. Especially for Pederson - Pederson is an RPO master and Tua was the greatest RPO QB in college history; why wouldn't Pederson want to work with him??? Third of all, the Dolphins are interviewing a ton of candidates - there is no indication whatsoever that potential coaches are blowing off Miami because of Tua.

Let's let the coaching search play out and see where it lands. The Dolphins are interviewing some strong candidates and will hire one of them next week.

by white1 Thu Jan 20, 2022 5:49 pm

Good points on Pederson and Caldwell. I will add that Ross believes in hiring young, first-time head coaches. He has told reporters that's the approach he uses in his businesses, and does the same in the NFL.

by CarsonChris Thu Jan 20, 2022 5:55 pm

If coaches watched Tua throw in the NFL they have cause for concern. I just don't see the necessary strength on any pass over 15 yards even if he does connect. Pickoffs waiting to happen.

by **JMP** Thu Jan 20, 2022 8:38 pm

CarsonChris wrote:If coaches watched Tua throw in the NFL they have cause for concern. I just don't see the necessary strength on any pass over 15 yards even if he does connect. Pickoffs waiting to happen.

Tua has plenty of arm strength and showed it many times over the course of the season. The biggest issue is he never has any time to throw. He often has to rush or force throws and doesn't always have time to get set. Arm strength has never been an issue for him, and once this team fixes the OL everyone will see it.

by **JMP** Fri Jan 21, 2022 2:07 pm

The Giants hired Bills' assistant GM Joe Schoen to be their new GM. People are of course speculating that this means Daboll will also be hired by the Giants, but they haven't even interviewed him yet. If the Phins want him, they need to act fast.

by **JMP** Mon Jan 24, 2022 12:16 pm

Nothing new on the Dolphins' front at all. Not sure what that might mean???

by white1 Mon Jan 24, 2022 2:28 pm

Agree it’s quiet. Vance Joseph is getting some traction according to rumblings on Twitter for whatever that’s worth.

Can’t say he’s considered an upgrade or downgrade - did poorly in Denver but a lot of coaches can say that also

by **JMP** Mon Jan 24, 2022 2:47 pm

white1 wrote:Agree it’s quiet. Vance Joseph is getting some traction according to rumblings on Twitter for whatever that’s worth.

Can’t say he’s considered an upgrade or downgrade - did poorly in Denver but a lot of coaches can say that also

I'm not giving the Joseph talk any time - it's pure speculation with no basis in fact. Seems like it all stems from the "Grier sucks, Tua sucks, no one wants to work for the Dolphins" crowd.

I did hear someone say that Daboll and McDaniel have been identified as the top 2 candidates, according to "sources", but again it's just pure speculation.

by finfanatic Mon Jan 24, 2022 3:24 pm

Well... I am trying to keep an open mind here, but...

Let's just say that the way Ross has handled this has EPIC FAIL written all over it.

He should have brought in a proven GM or football guy and let him decide if Grier should stay or not, and then let the new Guy hire a HC.

And trying to tell a HC Candidate you are going to keep Grier And/or Tua just is not going to work out IMO.

But we shall see I guess.

Even a blind orangutan finds a mango once in a while... down around the bottom of the tree...digging through the rotten mangoes, detritus, and all the ape feces... Shocked

To not even LOOK AT Pederson though.... I have heard the Iggles owner is bad-talking Pederson?

Or, it could be Pederson has looked at Grier and/or Tua and said, "Um... No thanks!" as others have speculated.

I just am getting a bad, bad feeling about this. Like I did when I saw Grandpa Queasy Joe Philbin picking up candy wrappers on the practice field and mumbling to himself on hard Knocks!

Neutral

by **JMP** Mon Jan 24, 2022 3:41 pm

finfanatic wrote:

And trying to tell a HC Candidate you are going to keep Grier And/or Tua just is not going to work out IMO.

I don't see this as an issue at all. It's the same situation as any other team with a GM. The GM is involved in the hiring process and is expected to stay on...that's how the process is done everywhere. Why is that an issue for the Dolphins? The fact that some fans hate Grier is meaningless.

As for Tua, Ross has stated that the QB decision will be up to the head coach. Again, not an issue.

The only real issue is that the pool of head coach candidates is pretty damn weak.

by HalCHorn Mon Jan 24, 2022 4:01 pm

Well, Ross had a "proven NFL guy" around prior to going with Grier/Flores: Mike Tannenbaum!

Seriously, just about everything Ross says or does in Miami has epic fail written all over it. He was right about Lamar Jackson, if the report is true, I'll give him that. But given his other football decisions I'm tending to consider that one moment of clarity as the blind squirrel stumbling onto an acorn.

by **JMP** Mon Jan 24, 2022 4:04 pm

HalCHorn wrote:Well, Ross had a "proven NFL guy" around prior to going with Grier/Flores: Mike Tannenbaum!

Seriously, just about everything Ross says or does in Miami has epic fail written all over it. He was right about Lamar Jackson, if the report is true, I'll give him that. But given his other football decisions I'm tending to consider that one moment of clarity as the blind squirrel stumbling onto an acorn.

Ross has certainly tried, I'll give him that. It would have been nice to see him clean out the front office from top to bottom when they did the complete roster rebuild before the '19 season, but that ship has sailed. All we can do now is hope that the next head coach actually knows how to be a head coach.

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